As an American who didn’t vote for him, I understand your anger. I feel it too but there are still genuinely good caring people here who do not agree with this monster. Please don’t hold it against all of us.
I’m Danish and I refuse to make this about nationality. I’ve had an immeasurable amount of American friends over the years. I’ve loved your music, your company, your viewpoints, your stories - and I’ve had nothing but respect for you. I’ve been on American social media with you for decades. I’ve laughed at the same jokes as you. I speak your language, I sing your songs, I share an incredible amount of your culture. We learned to celebrate Halloween from you. We wear your clothes. We are your friends.
This is where you’d expect to see a “but”, but there is no “but”. I just wanted to say this, because I refuse to be divided by national borders. The America I see now, is not the America I grew up with. And now I’m fucking crying. It feels like losing a good friend, to some sort of neurological illness. We will always share your values. Not MAGA values, but OUR values.
I understand that there are a lot of Americans who did not vote for him or support his actions. But he’s your monster. You need to deal with him.
If you do nothing and stand back while he invades other countries and force them to fight the battles you won’t, then you are neither a good nor caring person.
In any war there are soldiers who don’t wanna be there. Good, honest people, forced to march on because their masters will it.
If they come for my country I will have to shoot them nonetheless.
Take this motherfucker down by any political means necessary and if you can’t, then form your “well regulated militia” that your all too precious 2nd amendment affords you and take back your own country instead of others
As an American, l say that any soldiers that willingly take part in this invasion, even in a support role, are NOT “good honest people”. They are traitors following illegal orders. I fully support you defending your country with lethal force if it comes to that.
I wish that I had more power to stop this, but I don’t. Do what you have to do, and don’t feel guilty about it. Give us the hell we deserve.
Just wanted to say - no idea what’s going on in the comments, don’t take it too hard. People are angry. Just as I would not condemn every Russian because Putin is a giant asshole, I wouldn’t condemn every US american. Especially not those in the fediverse - it’s likely you suffer as well under your dictator.
It’s hard to make that distinction. Even in Germany under the jackboot of National Socialism there were still good people, some even dared to take action while others dragged their feet as much as possible without endangering themselves and their loved ones. This is where the difference between guilt and responsibility arises. In my opinion not all US Americans are guilty, just like not all Germans were, yet all US Americans share a responsibility to rid themselves of their political polarisation and the hatred at its root, just like the good people of Germany managed to do in the decades after the war.
I don’t condemn every Russian because Putin is a giant asshole, I condemn them because they’re content to “stay out of politics” and let Putin use their country to commit atrocities against their innocent neighbours. I condemn all of those who haven’t taken at least the same risks and efforts that their neighbours are forced to take to defend themselves.
Your government is threatening to invade its allies!
Our countrymen died fighting side by side with your military in your misguided wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We don’t have the patience and time to distinguish between good and evil Americans anymore. As long as your country keeps acting like this you’re all guilty!
Please read up about collective German guilt a term coined by the US when your country was still on the right side of history.
The sane Americans here are saying, “Hey, we’re your allies in this, we are trying to help,” and you’re literally saying, “No, you’re the enemy.” This is basically moral reasoning on the level of “my daughter crashed the car so I’m going to hit my son with a baseball bat.” It’s too much work on your part to distinguish between innocent and guilty? That’s some very firm moral high ground you’re lobbing spears from.
Not only is that nonsensical from a moral standpoint, but it’s terrible strategic thinking. You just prefer it if we’re all to be enemies? You’re asking both you (who is allegedly so infuriated because you are demanding a solution) and us (the people best positioned to try to help solve this) to waste our time fighting amongst each other. Great idea.
But to be clear, I understand when you spew hatred like this, you’re not thinking. You’re lashing out emotionally because you’re upset. Now the question is, will you acknowledge this, or will you respond by increasing the volume and digging in deeper?
Every time I see this argument I’m reminded of Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. If “trying to help” is limited to thoughts and prayers online, it isn’t help, it’s just masturbation.
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I understand it may remind you of that, but it’s not an apt comparison.
I’ve been advocating direct non-violent action here like MLK was doing (and, reminder, I assume non-violent protest won’t satisfy the angry non-Americans here who are telling us to “arm up”). I don’t think anyone is advocating for “wait[ing] for a more convenient season” - we know fascism is here, but the question is what is the move that (a) doesn’t cause it to dig in deeper like a tick, and (b) maximizes the good that we pay for with the risk to ourselves and others.
And yes, we’re all talking online, that’s what Lemmy is. I have called what I am doing “therapy” which I would suggest it in fact is, rather than “masturbation.” Living in the US and not being MAGA right now feels like being a battered family member, usually this at least reminds me of sanity. (Though not always - it’s super helpful to tell us that we’re awful because our abuser made a mess while they were abusing us, thanks for that everyone.) I come here to vent and commiserate - that’s not mutually exclusive from taking action.
I wake up and go to sleep (very poorly) fighting learned helplessness and awful emotions because I see the same headlines we all do here, and whatever the world feels seeing it, it’s happening here to us first.
I’m not asking to be a victim, not that anyone is offering any empathy to non-Trump Americans in this thread. I’m just saying, hey, maybe those of us in the US who are doing what we rationally can to stop Trump don’t need another abuser? I guess that’s my message for comrade_twisty and others gleefully (but definitely not masturbatorily!) piling on the “all Americans can fuck themselves” bandwagon.
I wholeheartedly applaud and support them! They’re absolutely not the ones I’m referring to. Those I take issue with are the ones who do nothing but seek a pat on the head for being “one of the good ones”. I don’t care that you voted for Kamala or repost every Occupy Democrats meme you see. I care about praxis.
Americans spout all about needing their guns to stop a tyrannical government and then a tyrannical governmnet comes along and they don’t take their guns into the streets to stop it.
The venn diagram of Americans who think they need guns to stop a tyrannical government and Americans who support Trump is a circle.
(All kidding aside, while this is still painfully close to true, there are signs it’s changing, such as the recent resurgence of the Black Panthers. However by and large the people who are horrified over the pain and suffering inflicted by the Trump administration are also anti-gun on account of all the pain and suffering they cause. The peaceful, anti-violence, anti-war types are not exactly well equipped–literally or figuratively–to stage an uprising against the government, certainly not one with a military budget the size of Mt Everest)
Sorry, running out of sympathy here. All my life Americans have talked a big game about how anti-tyrant they are, how their democracy is so wonderful and in the event that it fails they’ve got their precious guns to go set things right. Land of the free, home of the brave.
You don’t get to talk that big game and then flip over to “please don’t hold it against us!” Without getting called on it. I keep seeing Americans begging for other countries to come in and “save” them. Isn’t that the problem? Sort your own problems out. The only thing the rest of the world is obligated to do is keep you contained.
General strike, demonstrations where they can’t be ignored, organised resistance, organised campaigning, even striking in solidarity with others.
Oh. You’re all struggling too much to be able to do that?
That’s you being oppressed, and you could organise against that: you could organise war chests for striking, unionise to regain rights, vote or campaign for actual peoples representation rather than corporate such, build resilient communities, picket biased media, organise or join collective action, prosecute and pressure corrupt politicians, counter lobbies, educating yourself and others, etc.
Gather neighbours, save funds, support eachother, resist where you can and coordinate with others to have a greater impact.
But most aren’t going to, cus there’s always someone else to blame, someone else that should save the day. And while you’re passing blame, the fascists consolidate, divide and terrorise, both your domestic neighbours and international friends. Leaving you more vulnerable, more isolated, and with less and less support to resist or survive.
The French would have general striked and yellow vested the country to a grinding halt by now. Folks in the United States either lack the courage or confidence or interests or all of the above combined.
I like that “realistic” caveat that you’ve thrown in there. Does that mean that all that rhetoric about the 2nd Amendment and “the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants” was never realistic?
Self education that leads you and your friends away from heroic individualism, hypercapitalism, parochialism, cults, and other cultural excesses that lead to authoritarianism. It’s what we’re dealing with around the globe but the USA is struggling to understand.
The fun thing about America is that you can literally just walk to a shop and buy a gun today. The fact that everyone who opposes Trump hasn’t done that says a lot about the real situation on the ground there.
That, and the common refrain of “I can’t go to the protest, I need my job” clearly indicates that freedom has a price tag for them and it’s surprisingly low.
As an American who didn’t vote for him, I understand your anger. I feel it too but there are still genuinely good caring people here who do not agree with this monster. Please don’t hold it against all of us.
I’m Danish and I refuse to make this about nationality. I’ve had an immeasurable amount of American friends over the years. I’ve loved your music, your company, your viewpoints, your stories - and I’ve had nothing but respect for you. I’ve been on American social media with you for decades. I’ve laughed at the same jokes as you. I speak your language, I sing your songs, I share an incredible amount of your culture. We learned to celebrate Halloween from you. We wear your clothes. We are your friends.
This is where you’d expect to see a “but”, but there is no “but”. I just wanted to say this, because I refuse to be divided by national borders. The America I see now, is not the America I grew up with. And now I’m fucking crying. It feels like losing a good friend, to some sort of neurological illness. We will always share your values. Not MAGA values, but OUR values.
Agreed. It definitely feels like we’re losing a good friend. Signed Norwegian dude
Thank you. Borders are stupid, we are all humans and we only have one floating rock. Also, I love the Danes I’ve met.
I understand that there are a lot of Americans who did not vote for him or support his actions. But he’s your monster. You need to deal with him.
If you do nothing and stand back while he invades other countries and force them to fight the battles you won’t, then you are neither a good nor caring person.
In any war there are soldiers who don’t wanna be there. Good, honest people, forced to march on because their masters will it.
If they come for my country I will have to shoot them nonetheless.
Take this motherfucker down by any political means necessary and if you can’t, then form your “well regulated militia” that your all too precious 2nd amendment affords you and take back your own country instead of others
As an American, l say that any soldiers that willingly take part in this invasion, even in a support role, are NOT “good honest people”. They are traitors following illegal orders. I fully support you defending your country with lethal force if it comes to that.
I wish that I had more power to stop this, but I don’t. Do what you have to do, and don’t feel guilty about it. Give us the hell we deserve.
Than maybe its time to take some good and caring actions? It’s not enought to see it and be bothered by it.
We know there are lots of great Americans. The world needs you to get off your asses and fix your shit.
Just wanted to say - no idea what’s going on in the comments, don’t take it too hard. People are angry. Just as I would not condemn every Russian because Putin is a giant asshole, I wouldn’t condemn every US american. Especially not those in the fediverse - it’s likely you suffer as well under your dictator.
It’s hard to make that distinction. Even in Germany under the jackboot of National Socialism there were still good people, some even dared to take action while others dragged their feet as much as possible without endangering themselves and their loved ones. This is where the difference between guilt and responsibility arises. In my opinion not all US Americans are guilty, just like not all Germans were, yet all US Americans share a responsibility to rid themselves of their political polarisation and the hatred at its root, just like the good people of Germany managed to do in the decades after the war.
I don’t condemn every Russian because Putin is a giant asshole, I condemn them because they’re content to “stay out of politics” and let Putin use their country to commit atrocities against their innocent neighbours. I condemn all of those who haven’t taken at least the same risks and efforts that their neighbours are forced to take to defend themselves.
Your government is threatening to invade its allies! Our countrymen died fighting side by side with your military in your misguided wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We don’t have the patience and time to distinguish between good and evil Americans anymore. As long as your country keeps acting like this you’re all guilty!
Please read up about collective German guilt a term coined by the US when your country was still on the right side of history.
The sane Americans here are saying, “Hey, we’re your allies in this, we are trying to help,” and you’re literally saying, “No, you’re the enemy.” This is basically moral reasoning on the level of “my daughter crashed the car so I’m going to hit my son with a baseball bat.” It’s too much work on your part to distinguish between innocent and guilty? That’s some very firm moral high ground you’re lobbing spears from.
Not only is that nonsensical from a moral standpoint, but it’s terrible strategic thinking. You just prefer it if we’re all to be enemies? You’re asking both you (who is allegedly so infuriated because you are demanding a solution) and us (the people best positioned to try to help solve this) to waste our time fighting amongst each other. Great idea.
But to be clear, I understand when you spew hatred like this, you’re not thinking. You’re lashing out emotionally because you’re upset. Now the question is, will you acknowledge this, or will you respond by increasing the volume and digging in deeper?
Every time I see this argument I’m reminded of Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. If “trying to help” is limited to thoughts and prayers online, it isn’t help, it’s just masturbation.
I understand it may remind you of that, but it’s not an apt comparison.
I’ve been advocating direct non-violent action here like MLK was doing (and, reminder, I assume non-violent protest won’t satisfy the angry non-Americans here who are telling us to “arm up”). I don’t think anyone is advocating for “wait[ing] for a more convenient season” - we know fascism is here, but the question is what is the move that (a) doesn’t cause it to dig in deeper like a tick, and (b) maximizes the good that we pay for with the risk to ourselves and others.
And yes, we’re all talking online, that’s what Lemmy is. I have called what I am doing “therapy” which I would suggest it in fact is, rather than “masturbation.” Living in the US and not being MAGA right now feels like being a battered family member, usually this at least reminds me of sanity. (Though not always - it’s super helpful to tell us that we’re awful because our abuser made a mess while they were abusing us, thanks for that everyone.) I come here to vent and commiserate - that’s not mutually exclusive from taking action.
I wake up and go to sleep (very poorly) fighting learned helplessness and awful emotions because I see the same headlines we all do here, and whatever the world feels seeing it, it’s happening here to us first.
I’m not asking to be a victim, not that anyone is offering any empathy to non-Trump Americans in this thread. I’m just saying, hey, maybe those of us in the US who are doing what we rationally can to stop Trump don’t need another abuser? I guess that’s my message for comrade_twisty and others gleefully (but definitely not masturbatorily!) piling on the “all Americans can fuck themselves” bandwagon.
What about the Americans how are standing up and doing something and not sitting back.
I wholeheartedly applaud and support them! They’re absolutely not the ones I’m referring to. Those I take issue with are the ones who do nothing but seek a pat on the head for being “one of the good ones”. I don’t care that you voted for Kamala or repost every Occupy Democrats meme you see. I care about praxis.
Americans spout all about needing their guns to stop a tyrannical government and then a tyrannical governmnet comes along and they don’t take their guns into the streets to stop it.
The venn diagram of Americans who think they need guns to stop a tyrannical government and Americans who support Trump is a circle.
(All kidding aside, while this is still painfully close to true, there are signs it’s changing, such as the recent resurgence of the Black Panthers. However by and large the people who are horrified over the pain and suffering inflicted by the Trump administration are also anti-gun on account of all the pain and suffering they cause. The peaceful, anti-violence, anti-war types are not exactly well equipped–literally or figuratively–to stage an uprising against the government, certainly not one with a military budget the size of Mt Everest)
Was that coined before or after we invited all the nazis here to help with with space program?
And now you understand what we Germans feel when Americans ask what our ancestors did during the 1930s and 40s.
Sorry, running out of sympathy here. All my life Americans have talked a big game about how anti-tyrant they are, how their democracy is so wonderful and in the event that it fails they’ve got their precious guns to go set things right. Land of the free, home of the brave.
You don’t get to talk that big game and then flip over to “please don’t hold it against us!” Without getting called on it. I keep seeing Americans begging for other countries to come in and “save” them. Isn’t that the problem? Sort your own problems out. The only thing the rest of the world is obligated to do is keep you contained.
Good caring people that allow bad things to continue to happen are not good people
What realistic actions do you expect an average American who opposes Trump to take?
General strike, demonstrations where they can’t be ignored, organised resistance, organised campaigning, even striking in solidarity with others.
Oh. You’re all struggling too much to be able to do that?
That’s you being oppressed, and you could organise against that: you could organise war chests for striking, unionise to regain rights, vote or campaign for actual peoples representation rather than corporate such, build resilient communities, picket biased media, organise or join collective action, prosecute and pressure corrupt politicians, counter lobbies, educating yourself and others, etc.
Gather neighbours, save funds, support eachother, resist where you can and coordinate with others to have a greater impact.
But most aren’t going to, cus there’s always someone else to blame, someone else that should save the day. And while you’re passing blame, the fascists consolidate, divide and terrorise, both your domestic neighbours and international friends. Leaving you more vulnerable, more isolated, and with less and less support to resist or survive.
The French would have general striked and yellow vested the country to a grinding halt by now. Folks in the United States either lack the courage or confidence or interests or all of the above combined.
Nice try, CIA. Answering that question is how I got my Reddit account banned.
I like that “realistic” caveat that you’ve thrown in there. Does that mean that all that rhetoric about the 2nd Amendment and “the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants” was never realistic?
No it’s wasn’t. People in the fediverse aren’t likely to be right-wing gun nuts in the first place.
Self education that leads you and your friends away from heroic individualism, hypercapitalism, parochialism, cults, and other cultural excesses that lead to authoritarianism. It’s what we’re dealing with around the globe but the USA is struggling to understand.
They expect us all to commit suicide by cop but don’t want to come out and say it. If we haven’t died yet, we haven’t done enough.
Yup, that’s the only option. One desperate inflatable frog suit charge into a hail of bullets.
Blah blah blah.
Ah yes, the tired old “not all men” argument. Nobody cares. If you’re not actively part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
Look at all the Americunts downvoting the truth while they eat their MacDonalds hamburgers
You are forcing us to fight your fight. I am not going to waste time trying to determine who is who.
Do something about it.
America has the richest and most heavily armed population on earth. No one feels sorry for your inability to control the actions of your own country.
The people who oppose Trump tend to be the people who don’t own guns.
Then go out and get guns. ASAP.
The fun thing about America is that you can literally just walk to a shop and buy a gun today. The fact that everyone who opposes Trump hasn’t done that says a lot about the real situation on the ground there.
That, and the common refrain of “I can’t go to the protest, I need my job” clearly indicates that freedom has a price tag for them and it’s surprisingly low.
Guns will only defer a cultural problem.
You are all the same to us now.