Starting in early March, the platform will place every account into a default “teen-appropriate” experience unless it has proof that users are adults.
The move has brought widespread criticism from Discord users, who are citing privacy and security concerns following a recent breach of a third-party vendor that ended up exposing around 70,000 government ID images used to verify the age of Discord users.
This is the part, young-but-becoming-wise friends, where the company doesn’t give a shit about you and starts to prey on children, who, for a while, become very lucrative.
The chances of discord pushing ahead anyway, even with this very public outcry, is still 50/50.
I figure losing half their users while making money on their new surveillance scheme might be more profitable. Than have 100% of their user continue to use the app as is.
And after they lose 5% of their addicted users, all they have to do is continue to grow 5%. Oh no!
Sadly I think the end result of this won’t be people leaving discord, but people giving up liberties because it’s easier than fighting it
And they’re banking on that, it’s part of why they intentionally gave zero warning…1 month is nothing.
With more time a dedicated set of people could pull the alternatives up into solid real options
Or kick up such a huge ruckus that discord back down and undo it.
This was a very intentional and malicious choice to go “oh, yeah we’re doing this next month, kthnxbye”
I agree, convenience wins in this case, this is why twitter is still “bulletproof”.
Anyone with sense saw this coming when they did the same thing in Australia and the UK but I otherwise agree with your point. I think this is a very calculated move.
When the deadline gets here in a month, 80% of the group that would’ve migrated out of disgust won’t be affected because they just use Discord for group voice chats anyway, and the competition isn’t ready. The rest have been trained to put their personal info out there to anyone who asks for it. And, when (not if) they eventually roll out “IDs for Everyone”, the outrage won’t be nearly as detrimental to their bottom line because it’s already happened before.
Im currently at the point where I have such a presence on Matrix that I could genuinely delete my discord account
I tried to get into it but with it being presented as IRC but “fun” on their website, I couldn’t really understand why so many nearly empty projects sites keep telling me to try their server for more (or any, really) information… Then I did try to accept an invite, but why the fuck to I need to create an account to know if I want to create an account to begin with? So now, anything promoting Discord as the main method of getting information simply set off my scam alert.
you need to create an account for everything so that complaint rings hollow. Discord doesnt even have a high barrier as an account can be created in a few seconds and you can use it in the web.
I didn’t have to in order to figure out if Lemmy was something I wanted to use. Neither for IRC. That makes Discord vastly inferior to both.
your internet usage must be very limited.
I could just be me being a doomer, but I doubt any significant exodus will happen. People really about to drop discord? Right…
There’s no way in hell I’d upload my ID. Especially since discord recently had a data breach.
Though, threatening to delete (and maybe actually doing so) might make them reconsider.
I’m with you.
Considering that age verification will only be mandatory to browse NSFW content, and that without it you can still join servers and keep calling during gameplay as per usual, my bet is that exodus won’t happen. There is going to be part of people who will verify, and the unverified half either gonna leave or keep using discord just without NSFW.
Reddit exodus, unfortunately, barely had any impact. Bluesky had a good influx of new users, but it didnt kill xitter. Doubt that there anything going to happen with discord.
Yeah I think these articles are trying to push people to leave discord and not actually reporting a real trend. Even on lemmy where people are far more likely to be halfway out the door or wanting to leave discord its still a low amount saying they left.
Across the 20 servers im in i’ve seen 0 movement. People arent even talking about it.
I mentioned dropping discord in my gaming group chat. Five non political normies and myself. Literally nobody is fighting to stay on discord. We’ll try a few alternatives and even if I’ve gotta fork over a few bucks a month, I will. Any site that requires id is dead to me.
That’s like when people say that this time we won’t pre-order games anymore, and the new call of duty is the steam bestseller a month before release.
Yeah I think people will just strive to keep their servers sfw
Maybe people will finally realize discord isn’t the place for your projects documentation to exist
If its an age-restricted project, sure.
I miss the days of forums and hate having tobfo to discord for support on stuff
Wait, what are people using it for? I use discord for shooting the shit with people about video games and politics.
anything communication wise its versatile.
That’s fine. Unfortunately people are using it to coordinate open source software development. I don’t know how people do it. You have to use the search box and scroll through hundreds of chat messages to find some code you need. It doesn’t show up on google. It’s just horrible.
I’ve seen so many IT projects, associations, communities of minorities using discord in lieu of wikis, forums, documentation, etc. I personally know a marginalized community with a dire need of visibility, information and stuff that has everything locked behind their discord server and everything is about to be lost. It’s both extremely sad and a huge “told you so years ago”
Pretty much anything 3d printing-related has a discord. Want to build a specific type of printer? Latest info is always on the discord, and if you don’t check it you’ll find yourself with pieces that don’t fit together.
Exactly what I was thinking
Do it, pussies. I remember when sites would actually topple when they made poor decisions.
The obvious solution here is for DEVICE manufacturers to add verification steps in the OS for parents to configure.
How about hell fucking no you idiot
Obvious
How is this not worse?
Rather than a hypothetical advertising ID assigned at the browser. We now have a physical government ID tied to every single device Serial ID accessible by anyone who claims they need age verification (read: everyone).
What he wants are just OS level parental controls. If enabled the OS tells apps that the user is underage. Like the only info is:
underage: true/false
Yea. Basically this.
Don’t we already have this?
Google Family Link, Apple Screen Time
I have personally set it up. Works great for Google and Apple. The Amazon equivalent is shite - literally had to generate e-waste to get better control.
Hey I have a better idea
How about they fuck off and talk to internet router hardware companies to make decent software UIs, with defaults that make sheep masses actually use them to ‘protect the children’ client side where it actually works
Oh because its not actually about that and the powers that be don’t actually give a rats about protecting children and this whole protect the children conversation is a red herring to allow them to push their real goals which include but are not limited to mass censorship of people who disagree with and resist their opinions, actions, and agendas
The real trick is we need the governments to back down and just make sure we have the power to allow/deny our kids access.
I mean uploading your government ID or having to share your biometric data via video is also just as terrible. There is no guarantee that these companies will not fuck it up sell your data get hacked etc. Instead of an ID number linked to you and they now have a copy of your identity.
Right and attaching it to your phone just means you click. “Send Daved Video” instead of “Record”.
They are still going to have it for their own records
Ok, honestly with some caveats, this might have legs.
What most of us want: to use our services anonymously and privately
What some of us want: to keep youtube/discord/roblox from enabling pedofarms. yes i get the obligatory people should just raise their kids
What companies say they want: to keep kids safe
What companies really want: to appease some users and farm as much data about someone as they can and to comply with the growing trend of places that require age verification.
So, what if they provide an offline model for age verification? download the model, phone in airplane mode. verify yourself, get a digitally signed certificate, expunge the app so shove that verifiable signature as proof that you’re an adult.
From the corporate standpoint, It’s no different than signing into their account and giving them your face. we keep our privacy, they can fuck off about it.
How would that work on PCs?
Bios.
Threaten? Bro as soon as the 2 people I care about get on Root I’m out.
Root? What’s that from what I’ve heard a lot of people are moving to stoat.
I made a Root account and run it on NixOS through their appimage. I’m waiting on my friend to get it so I can test the voicechat and screen share but so far it’s functional and has 2 awesome features that Discord doesn’t have. Reply to more than 1 comment with only 1 of your messages. Tabs on the top similar to a browser, it’s just more natural for me than the sidebar shit.
In the mean time I’m still probably gonna host a Matrix server with a VPS incase Root ever decides to pull a Discord.
Plus I just don’t like the name “Stoat.” xD “Get on Stoat bro” Sounds weird.
Real question, what stops Root from having the same problems as Discord?
For now they’re really incentivized to not be douchebags to grow their company, at least for the a year or two imo. Which is plenty of time for people like us to figure out how to host our own shit so we don’t have to decide whether we want convenience or privacy/security.
But I’m still hopeful for Root just like I’m hopeful for a company like Steam continues to stay decent.
Plus I just don’t like the name “Stoat.” xD “Get on Stoat bro” Sounds weird.
This is actually the main reason I believe most of these discord alternatives have zero chance at becoming mainstream. Name is 75% of the success. Just think about it.
Why do adults have to suffer because parents don’t know how to control their kids?
Because it’s not actually about the kids, the kids are just the excuse. That’s all they ever are.
I am just not going to participate in that verification shit, and, for now, I will just not see that stuff anymore.
Discord age restrictions prevent an underage user from viewing - but not sending - nude pictures.
This isn’t to protect kids. It’s to enforce increasingly authoritarian control over the web.
Any source for this ?
The official announcement is quite vague and since the feature isn’t out it’s hard to know how it will work exactly.
Also, I assume the biggest risk isn’t for teens to send nudes “unprompted” but to let adults contact them and ask for them.
This for example is very vague :
Age-gated Spaces – Only users who are age-assured as adults will be able to access age-restricted channels, servers, and app commands.
So if a teen can only interact with other teens on dedicated spaces it should make it harder for perverts to ask for stuff.
And if an adult tries to pretend to be a teen he will only see blurred content ?
I’m sure many will think I’m trying to defend Discord on this but I’m not. Again we dont really know how this update will work. I’m just trying to make sure we dont spread misinformation.
There will be plenty of time to criticize Discord when they push this update.
What I’m sure of is that discord was definitely a platform of choice for many bad people to hunt and groom teens.
Personally, it’s the fact that discord says they will delete my verification data :
Identity documents submitted to our vendor partners are deleted quickly— in most cases, immediately after age confirmation.
In most cases ? Really ? Is that supposed to look trustworthy ?
So if a teen can only interact with other teens on dedicated spaces it should make it harder for perverts to ask for stuff.
There is no age verification to prove you’re a teen. The age verification is to prove that you’re an adult.
Please read the end of my message.
If you are a teen “by default” you will have all the restrictions of a teen until you prove you are an adult.
So an adult with ill intentions should either be :
- A teen by default and therefore have many limitations.
- An adult that have limitations in reaching to teens.
Again it’s what the very vague statement of Discord says. We also have no clue how their “inference model for age classification” works either…
So an adult could just create two accounts, one to access teen spaces, where they don’t verify their age l and one for accessing adult spaces, where the age gets verified?
Please read the Discord official post.
one to access teen spaces,
That account will be tagged as a teen account until proven otherwise. Therefore any message or DM he will receive will go to a special inbox with most likely warnings to consult it.
Please, again, I understand that the pitchforks are out for discord, I’m just asking you to take the time to read the official discord post from top to bottom.
There will still be unknowns until they release the update but your question is already answered by their official post.
Basically, as long as an account hasn’t done an age verification it’s assumed to be a teen. And that means all the limitations attached to that. So you can create 10 accounts if you want either :
-
You have proven you are an adult on that account you remove the limitations to what you can do but your messages towards teen accounts will most likely go to that special inbox they mention. No clue exactly how hidden and how much warning are attached to that inbox.
-
You have no proven your age and your account is limited like any other teens account. You won’t be able to see “sensitive media” whatever Discord means by that I dont know.
What I really wonder is what they will allow in term of interactions between the two groups in details. They are very vague on many aspects of it.
But multiplying your accounts on discord doesn’t look like a valid workaround to their system.
The point I am making is about protecting teens from adults. So teen-per-default means that adults can freely talk to teens, which should be prevented. Either allow no teens on your platform, or teens have to proof that they are teens first.
Adults (and teens for that matter) are pretty good at obfuscating grooming.
So teen-per-default means that adults can freely talk to teens, which should be prevented.
That’s not my understanding.
I get your point but by default if Discord thinks you are a teen it also implies all the limitations associated with that status. Which means some media will be blurred and some commands cannot be done.
An adult can keep his “teen default status” but he also keeps all the limitations associated with it. Which I suppose doesn’t mean they can “freely” talk to other accounts as you state.
Notably the DM that a groomer would send will end up in a special inbox for all teens or for that matter “default teen”.
-
The age restrictions for Discord were implemented already in my country a few months ago, that’s why I know it works that way
For what it’s worth, I’m a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and online grooming, and IMO this policy does not make vulnerable kids any safer at all. As a kid, growing up, I was desperate for any validation and even kindness because of my neglectful/abusive home situation and that need was exploited by adults who provided me the emotional connection I needed/wanted, which was then twisted into a romantic/sexual relationship. That’s the risk, and all it needs is a basic chat functionality - once it has started, the groomer can very easily “help” the young person bypass any and all “protections” through any number of methods, including just switching to another platform.
The reality is that most kids are far more at danger from abusive adults in their lives - their parents, family, friends, teachers, etc. - than they are at danger from the Internet. The reason I was vulnerable to abuse online is because I was already abused IRL. If you (or anyone) has concerns about their kids safety online, by far the best thing you can do is just to be there for them, be a trustworthy, kind and loving adult in their lives. That way, when creeps online talk to them, they won’t be needy for the attention, they won’t be vulnerable, and if something makes them uncomfortable, they’ll come and talk to you about it.
Anyways, went off on kind of a tangent, but I hope it’s helpful/informative anyways.
It might not mean much, but thank you for sharing that!
So happy. Discord sucks.
Yeah, I agree. I hope Discord both fails as a company and as a concept.
Information siloed inside a non-easily searchable interface? No thank you.
Discord probably did the math and are willing to take a hit to the user counts (much like reddit did when they closed the apis), as the vast majority will stay and keep “threatening” to leave. There’s at least the hope that the ones who quit now will establish communities elsewhere, on a (hopefully) better server platform.
Enshittification is not single step. It’s more a “boiling a frog”-kinda process.
Discord itself was a big step of enshittification from the very start when communities moved from individual platforms to Discord servers.
Sometimes I like to remember when Nitro was like 5 bucks and gave a bunch of stuff, and now it is 10 bucks gives less AND they still try to sell me fucking cosmetics…
I dropped my Nitro when they announced a possible buyout/IPO
It probably also says something of the ones that stay: they can keep getting further exploited. And these are the ones they want.
Yep. It’s why trumpers are such a lucrative scam target. It’s a self selected group of easily deceived victims.
Same tactic used by scammers sending “bad” messages - it’s at least partially in purpose to single out the good marks.
I agree, but, I see some parallels, a Reddit competitor that solved some of those issues, was hardly functional when they killed APIs. There was no competition. Look at us now baby! Still not competition, but, at least there’s an alternative.
I hope I can say the same about discord in a bit. There’s really nowhere for anyone to go, without losing a lot of features. Well, hopefully, talented people are going to migrate to these platforms to bring an alternative to discord.
Discord probably did the math and are willing to take a hit to the user counts
I very much doubt whoever thought about doing the math did so, and if they did, that said math made it out of their department. This kind of decision is much more likely to have been a C-suite darling that no one dared speak against or the equivalent thereof.
I’m saying thoughtful organizational decisions are less common than we’d like.
Are there any viable alternatives? Last I looked they all kinda sucked
I wanna start by saying I’m not a power user, I only use discord as a glorified chat manager for my immediate friends. That said, Stoat is everything I like about discord with a nicer ui and a public server seach function. I made an account when discord started ads and I honestly feel like it’s a little further than Lemmy was when I came here from reddit.
Right now sign up is slow because of the huge influx of users. That said, the team is handling it well and being very transparent about it which is refreshing.
I love Stoat’s UI but video streaming is an absolute must for My use case and last I checked they said it wasn’t a priority
Ahh that’s fair.
I’ve been hearing good things about https://spacebar.chat/. Stoat (formerly Revolt) is out there as well. Matrix is another possibility, but it’s more for individual channels rather than whole servers, so doesn’t fit some use cases.
The problem is, even if I am willing to deal with some inconveniences, many others aren’t. How am I going to move a server with >100 active users and multiple thousand inactive ones? And what about the six others I have that fit that description? There’s quite a few servers I could go without, but around a dozen that I’d much prefer not to lose.
I’ve already been trying, but people don’t like Revolt, Nerimity, Matrix, hell I tried Mattermost. Some people are fine with some of these platforms, but there is never any remote consensus.
At least some have cancelled their nitro subscription, making them a net loss for Discord in the future.
Discord has, despite everything, been my primary chat/social app and to switch to something else one has to uproot absolutely everything. That’s sadly not feasible.
It’s absolutely feasible; it’s just not painless. The network effect is real. This is something most of us here on the fediverse should be well familiar with: I’d wager we’ve all left a big proprietary centralized platform for a smaller one with less content that doesn’t exactly fit our needs. Yes, it can suck; yes, you’ll miss out on content and discussions that you would have seen before; yes, you’ll be fine in a year anyway.
That said, it sounds like Discord is doing some backpedaling at the moment, and that the vast majority of people won’t have to do this. If that’s so, there’s some time before it enshittifies further. I’m going to use that to check out alternatives. My first step will be spinning up Matrix and a Discord bridge to see if that meets my needs. Then some of the other platforms, probably Stoat and Spacebar. I’m going to treat them as beta tests and give lots of feedback to the dev teams, which I hope will help incentivize development. I might even throw a few bucks at promising projects.
The ultimate end of centralized platforms is decay. It’s time to get serious about Discord replacements, at least for me.
Does it have video streaming yet?
Sounds like it’s experimental at the moment:
Voice/Video when?
Currently there is experimental voice/video WebRTC support in Spacebar. UDP connections are not currently supported.
This is a very difficult feature to get working, especially given that we must implement it the exact same way as Discord.com for client compatibility, so if you find any bugs please open an issue in Spacebar server.
We would also be incredibly thankful for any assistance.
https://docs.spacebar.chat/faq/
So might not be ready for primetime. Voice is pretty critical to how I often use Discord. Video less so, but still important.
Sad times. I’ll be all in when a competitor gets all the essential features replicated.
I think they’re already too big to fail. They captured the entire market. There’s no real competitor with any kind of noticeable fraction of the market share.
The closest thing to a competitor are business products similar to slack or teams. None of those have anything close to feature parity like high quality streaming at no cost.
I would gladly host something myself, but I can’t do it all. IMO this needs a lemmy equivalent with decentralized hosting or something.
Reddits stock performance since that decision isn’t likely anything that anyone would want to emulate.
TIL people actually pay for nitro lol.
I’ve probably paid around 100€/$ in total (been occasionally using and gifting Nitro since 2019 and regularly for about a year). I’ll definitely stop it and using Discord if they follow through with this.
People always ask why even paying users exist - simple, I am a paying user myself, and by that I hold the power to actually cut their revenue rather than just leave the platform.
I pay for nitro because I love discord and love supporting it. I will cancel if they go through with this nonsense.
That’s too late.
Once they do it, they won’t reverse their path. They have to know they’re losing people now, before they commit. You can always start again after they change their mind.
This thread just reminded me to cancel mine. Good riddance IMHO. I should’ve done it back when they started spamming me with “quests” (aka ads) for Amazon and random fucking gatcha games. Between the privacy stuff and the pressure to monetize, there’s next to no way it’s gonna get better.
