Not sure what to include or not, but I figure if you’re not on twitter you might have missed it.
Lots of very disturbing new stories and details coming out. Basically the entire western elite is in on it. Details about using war-torn countries to traffic children too. They wrote guides about these countries, openly talked in emails about “bringing back some children” from their visits there.
More names, including of course a lot of Trump. Some perpetrators are still redacted but people are finding them out. Elon Musk, his brother Kimball, and Bill Gates are in it too.
Moot (of 4chan) had contact with Epstein and met him several times. Possibility that 4chan was created by “Israel” to stoke the modern far-right movement. Of course there’s a lot of speculation and that’s the problem with twitter, the cracked theories are lumped in with the actual facts and it gets hard to tell what’s plausible or not. Lots of people want to get the views first so they find whatever they can and then form a theory even if they get facts wrong, just to be the first ones to get it.
An email from a redacted name saying they “are in China” dated last week of May 2009, and then “will be in the US for 2 weeks”. People are trying to find who it could be, so far possibilities include Gates or Nethanyahu. They should cross-reference with the US mention though.
Oh yeah and that motherfucker Chomsky, pissed be his name, is also in the latest round.
You know who’s not ANYWHERE in those files though? President of the goddamn People’s Republic of China, Mr. Xi Jinping.
On the one hand it’s nothing we didn’t already imagined, but seeing it laid out like this from victim statements and emails is something else.
Are communist parties doing anything with this? They should.
Epstein seems to have been interested (involved, maybe?) in the overthrow of Gaddafi, particularly with Libya’s frozen assets.
On the Chomsky business: Here’s two principled “libertarian socialists” having a discussion about how Venezuela isn’t real socialism.
there are some real gems in this release, for example
Should be on .ml world and USA
I’m banned on world at this point, but feel free to post :)
Worksworld news here, lol. Sorry. I’m having cold symptoms, and was asleep before dark. About to go back to sleep.
I saw it explode in the Iranian and Cuban telegrams but, beside my comment in the General Thread, I decided not to make a post about it in Lemmygrad due to the sheer horror of the content.
All I can say is that the imperialists spent billions fabricating horror stories about Xi, Putin, Díaz-Canel, Kim Jong Un, Maduro, the Palestinians. Yet all of them, combined, can’t even come close to what’s in the Epstein files.
It’s exploding all over LatAm left and liberal social media tbh, lots of people linked with Epstein specially far-right people.
I actually don’t have many resources from Cuba, coukd you send me some telegram links like that? I just have Spanish language Venezuela stuff and the Flotillas.
Regarding Cuba, I have the following telegram channels:
Those are very good but I also like the following news sites:
moot was in the files
the creator of the birthplace of pedobear and the usual pedo memes
this is not precisely a surprise
It’s beginning to sound like everything bad in the world is actually connected to a cabal of shadowy elites, like Q Anon but somehow dumber? Are medbeds real?
I would say it’s less shadowy cabal and more of a hiding in plain sight gangster empire thing because there’s nothing in place to hold them accountable and won’t be in many parts of the world so long as empire is in charge, and to a lesser degree, so long as capitalism is in charge. For contrast, consider the kind of headline that comes out of China along the lines of “person in government position greatly abused it to enrich themself and gets life sentence, or death penalty if they re-offend within X amount of time.” That kind of thing simply doesn’t happen with major financial crimes in capitalist states. The most that ever happens is a rogue person who breaks financial laws might get held accountable with a prison sentence once in a blue moon.
If we extend that to other types of crimes, it’s no wonder this kind of thing goes largely undetected by the general public for so long. With the type of financial abuse that capitalist empire is known for, people are at least more likely to be aware because it tends to have a more visible and broad impact. But for many others kinds of crimes, with the sheer logistical power that capitalists have on hand, who is going to spot what they’re doing and stop them? The CIA and other western imperial “intel” orgs who are busy organizing mass murder operations? The FBI who is busy going after racial minorities? The cops who behave like gangs themselves? The individualist liberals who are trimming their suburban garden hedges behind their white picket fences?
Until the working class, the imperialized, the colonized take back power, these lifelong terrorists who frame themselves as visionaries will keep abusing.
Nothing you said is wrong, but the simple version: it’s fascism, essentially. The socialist world and its (more-or-less) allies are fighting against capitalism gone completely psychotic, just as in 1941. We shouldn’t be surprised to find that the capitalists commit crimes on the level of the worst atrocities of Imperial Japan.
We shouldn’t be surprised to find that the capitalists commit crimes on the level of the worst atrocities of Imperial Japan.
Or hell, for that matter, that they commit crimes on the level of their own colonial ancestors (whom their state power is not so distant from). It reminds me of that quote about Hitler and how it wasn’t something new, so much as it was the same tactics of colonialism and empire turned inward.
The bourgeoisie have class solidarity and are fighting a class war, so conspiracy is just a natural progression.
At this level they are not competitors anymore, they are good friends with each other - including in politics. It’s how capitalism progresses as it asserts itself as the hegemonic mode of production. All the talks of “if this law gets passed it’ll be bad for business and I might just move my company” is exactly just talk; by the time the law is even publicized to the public these guys have already been told all about it and ran the numbers and simulations and know exactly how they’re coming out of it. Shadowy elites, though, that depends. I mean, they’re pretty blatant about it. We know who they are – Bill Gates Elon Musk etc. The shadowy part might be that they keep up the appearances in front of the cameras (so to speak) but behind it they all know each other intimately.
There’s an old joke that after convicting the accused, the judge, the prosecutor and the attorney all go grab drinks together.
We need to scrutinize Chomsky’s work. Like comb through it and catalog his positions on various issues, and what courses of action he advocates and opposed. What popular ideas (that he’d obviously be exposed to) that he omits.
We know that the empire works to infiltrate and corrupt leftist, socialist and communist movements and we now know that Chomsky was one of the most successful examples of that in academia and theory. I have a feeling some dedicated scrutiny could bear a lot of fruit, but I have almost no free time before Chinese New Year hols.
Several years ago I said after listening to a Media Roots Radio episode (maybe this one) that I seriously suspect that child molestation is probably a common phenomenon among the upper classes, and somebody on Reddit chimed in by mentioning that a similar culture exists in Singapore and South Korea. I’d be unsurprised if Epstein and his friends have been there before.
G-d, it’s hard to believe that this problem is systematic among the rich. You would think that it would only exist among a handful of them, but from what I understand, it is a lot more widespread than that.
Anyway, I need to be honest and say that I don’t have the stomach to dwell on this topic and that I would rather focus my attention on something else. I’ll just conclude by saying that the upper classes deserve bullets to their foreheads.
It was systemic among Russian aristocrats before the revolution. People rightly criticize Lenin and the Bolsheviks for their stance on homosexuality, but they forget what motivated it: the Bolsheviks were keen to stamp out elite pedophilia (“pederasty”), and they accepted the common medical opinion at the time that homosexuality and pedophilia were somehow linked. The most evident practitioners of non-traditional sex in pre-revolutionary Russia were not workers and peasants genuinely in love with each other, but Epstein-like aristocrats whom everybody knew were up to stuff behind closed doors.
Also, I never want to hear a liberal talk about Beria again.
Huh. I thought Lenin was cool about homosexuality. IIRC he was pretty progressive. He even banned corporal punishment.
Yeah, medical consensus has really evolved since. Nowadays the DSM and ICD say that pedophilia and pederasty aren’t linked, which I think explains the phenomenon of the elites being so into the latter, they’re simply abusing power and getting their dicks wet rather than having the attraction.
I hope I’ve gotten the history right. My understanding is that the Bolsheviks repealed the entire Tsarist legal code, which included prohibitions against (male) homosexuality, and didn’t make any laws on it one way or the other. This made homosexual relationships technically legal, but also, given the general conservatism of Russian culture at the time, put them in a kind of strange gray area, since many officials persisted in considering homosexuality bourgeois decadence and identical with pederasty. Then the government started regulating homosexuality much more strictly, as part of an effort to stamp out “bath-houses” and other illicit sexual entertainment venues that were causing a spread of venereal disease. Under Stalin, who got several things wrong despite being one of the greatest men in modern history, the ban on homosexuality was made explicit. It seems that Soviet psychology in the 1930s, being like all psychology of the time influenced by Freud, believed that fascism and homosexuality were heavily linked – i.e., if you’re that into guns and tight uniforms and virility and the inferiority of women, there’s clearly something phallic going on.
So it’s a mixture of bad science and trying to fix, without really knowing how, certain genuine social and medical problems. Along with homosexuality, abortion was made illegal, and divorce became harder to obtain. Kollontai, interestingly, actually campaigned for some of these “conservative” changes – not criminalization of homosexuality, but certainly banning abortion and tightening divorce laws. Soviet women’s organizations were behind them as well. Apparently there was a perception, I don’t know how justified, that some women were taking advantage of the loose divorce laws that existed in the early Soviet Union to “poach” mates, thus undermining the cohesion of local communes, and engaging in a type of social parasitism; if today, in our fairly liberal society, there exists a strata of conservative women who think that all other heterosexual woman are just temporarily embarrassed homewreckers, the perception can only have been stronger in a country just emerging from feudalism.
Under Stalin, who got several things wrong despite being one of the greatest men in modern history
I think he’d get mad at you for saying that. I mean, I agree, but we need to take care not to fall into the trap of thinking he was behind everything the government he was in did, even the CIA doesn’t think that. But yeah, I think psychology really evolved since the 30s and I’m glad it did.
Do you have any readings, sources, etc; about this? I cannot seem to find anything about this online, atleast not in English. Seems like something very important that would explain why there was such a conservative atitude on sexuality in the USSR.
See reply to Orcinus above. I’m mostly just going off things I remember reading about Russian and Soviet history; I’ll try to put some sources here later.
It’s not just the rich, unfortunately.
This is my thing. Just how is it so common? Obviously they get legal and economic protection, but why child molestation specifically being so common and systemic?
Often with stuff like this it is about the power dynamics in play and they are the biggest between child and adult. I guess being at the upper class in this system means that you are at least to some degree susceptible to being power hungry and sadly these type of things become like an ultimate fantasy sort of thing. And because the people involved are so high in the chain of command they can (mostly) get away with it too.
Seeing wider internet groups implode over the revelation the internet has had massive perverse pedophilic influence since the earliest days of their favourite internet forums (basically 4chan.)
Essessentially, mad that the Marxists were right again.
Ehhhh. I don’t think you can blame everything people fight about on the pedo influence.
It’s not just the internet. It was printing press, quill and inkpot, stylus and tablet, ochre on cave walls…
I’m glad this is finally being taken somewhat seriously. I’ve had to witness human traffickers get off the hook so easily, in my personal life, with no punishment. And of course the guy was also a neo-nazi.
Although I wouldn’t count on this doing anything than opening the doors to conversation, in my experience people get over caring real fast.
Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom by Pier Paolo Pasolini is surprisingly relevant today.
The content of the files can be described as “That political horror movie from the '70s, written by Italian marxist-leninists, was actually a documentary about fascism”.
The 70s were wild. They seem so distant (half a century wtf) but the more they surge back, the more I see similarities to today’s climate. The first airplane hijackings, a burgeoning indie scene in the arts, a very “i don’t even care about this shit anymore” attitude, the black panthers, invention of Gonzo journalism, the legacy of the many liberation movements and struggles of the 1960s, the oil crisis, and now even the kitsch is coming back in style!
Is Salo as shocking as people say or is it one of those things where its reputation makes it look bigger than it is? You got me intrigued when you said it was written by MLs lol.
Maybe I’m just talking about this because i wanna be distracted, but what was with the original book? De Sade was a libertine himself, was he in favor of all those actions he describes or is it kind of a “you restrict man’s desires and they get worse” kind of deal?
A communist association where I am, has been pushing with this. it also helps that its a really good way to start a conversation with a “progressive liberal”
Moot and Epstein being in cahootz is definitely the most shocking thing to come out of this.
I’ve seen it suggested before, but is the running theory that 4chan wasn’t a “naturally occurring” Internet cesspool, but a consciously directed operation from Epstein and his evil billionaire friends to funnel terminally online edgelords into right-wing ideology? I’ll be honest, I don’t know if I can get behind that one. People on the mid-2000s Internet could be fucking horrible without any help.
It explains why nobody with any clout ever did anything about it, when everyone could see that it stood to do a lot of harm to a vulnerable demographic. And the idea that it could be weaponized into a hate group and directed at things isn’t absurd when we know that that’s been done with extremist religious groups.
Not even kidding when I more and more suspect.world, and .works as CIA ops, and certain users as agents.
Put yourself in the CIA’s position and consider the value prospect of setting up instances:
- Lemmy is open source.
- Anyone can federate.
- The original Lemmy has no privilege or primacy over any other instance apart from being established first.
- You have entire nations full of people (who have been so pre-conditioned by red scare that many of them are 3rd-generation brainwashed) who will eagerly amplify your voice, and having the loudest voice is the biggest factor in this kind of framework.
- Lemmy is designed to protect your anonymity, so the танкиs will likely never be able to prove you’re behind it.
The cost-to-benefit ratio is so good that you’d be mad not to.
ack
Lemmy is open source.
As with any fedi software should. If tf.s gets down, I can seek refuge here, or on hexbear.net.
yeah it’s a double edged sword
It could easily be a “naturally occurring” internet cesspool that was quickly co-opted as soon as it became large enough.
q anon invented by epstein confirmed?
Not at all surprised
but still disappointed.
I’m not. Are you?
i mean yeah. i’m trying to think about things not disappointing about all this bullshit happening.
maybe the memes? the memes have been fire. or the fact its out in the first place.
I’m disappointed I didn’t wake TF up sooner; and glad I’m going in wide awake, now.
i feel ya. it was only semi recently that i got shook awake, all we can do now is try to wake up others!
It appears to happen in stages, like going through the various brain waves until we hit REM and float back up again. 🐇🕳️🐇🕳️🐇🕳️
It clicks a lot of things into place for me tbh. Incredible revelation though. Epstein =q? /sarcasm
I’m not on Twitter anymore for a while, so thanks for the heads up. Do you know of any good sources that go over the details of what has been released? I’m thinking about looking into it, but don’t want to be relying on imperialist news takes if I can help it.
I’m reposting most of what I find on twitter with the prolewiki account but if you don’t have an account you can’t read twitter anymore unfortunately
some people put up jmail.world website which looks like gmail but you’re logged in as epstein as a way to browse the email correspondence more easily. I think there’s a few other archives, MeidasTouch I think is one? Note I know nothing about these websites, I can’t personally endorse them.
some of the files were deleted shortly after being published by DOJ, but were archived.
I can post some of the stuff that was found, but I’ll do it in spoilers. Warning - not for everyone to read. I don’t even know what content warnings to use but if this is a difficult topic for you please just don’t open the spoiler, if anything ask me if you have a question and I can try to answer you differently if you really want to know.
vvvvvvvvvv LAST WARNING ⚠ before opening vvvvvvvv
All of this is corroborated as posted in the files. Interpretation of what’s written can vary (I believe some accounts are quick to jump to conclusions) but in general it’s pretty cut and dry.
I am mixing the ‘this guy’s in it?’ with the fucked up stuff so again please heed the CW.
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bill gates had sex with russian prostitute then asked epstein for antibiotics for him and to slip into his wife’s drink so she wouldn’t know. This created a feud between the two but secondary to the point bill gates wanted to drug his wife without her consent so she wouldn’t learn of his cheating.
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moot (supposed founder of 4chan) created /pol/ a few days after meeting with Epstein for 1st time. He met again at several times subsequently.
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after that epstein was a big poster on 4chan. He forwarded, I kid you not, FNAF pornography from 4chan to people by email. And we know maxwell was a moderator on big subreddits like r/worldnews.
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diary from a girl presumed to be between 11-14 talking about how maxwell and epstein wanted to make her into a ‘walking incubator’. He had a eugenics ‘research’ ranch in new mexico ready for a ‘baby farm’ (not sure if this is his wording or people’s). Apparently she gave birth several times.
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epstein was big into eugenics apparently and part of that was the new mexico location (he also seemed to have funded research).
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trump told a girl (identity protected) that he could kill her and ‘bury her under the golf course like the other nine removed’, referring to one of his golf courses.
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mentions of “torture”, no more info. One email to a redacted recipient written by epstein says “I liked the torture video”. At other points “did you torture her”, or similar.
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one victim spoke to FBI in 2019 about how he witnessed Bush Sr. ritualistically cut another victim’s feet with saber while on boat party, then killed baby, spilled the intestines and ate the contents with guests on board. FBI seemed more concerned that they didn’t ‘know Bush had raped him too’ (in email reply), which could be read in two different ways. Not going to weigh in on interpretation, but the email is there with the victim’s statement.
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Trump would host ‘calendar girls’ parties at Maralago with girls ‘provided’ by Epstein. I’m not sure if their age was disclosed in the document. Victim who made the statement said Trump would ‘auction them off’ one by one to the guests and insert his finger in their vulvas to rate ‘tightness’.
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in the new release, 911 mentions of ‘pizza’ or ‘grape soda’, or ‘chinese cookies’. Clearly code e.g. “When are we next going for pizza and grape soda?”
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‘tourists guides’ on war-torn countries such as Somalia or Kosovo, but the guides were more about average wage, GDP per capita, refugee camps, etc.
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Lots of royals. Picture of Prince Andrew (ex-prince? whatever, the bri’ish guy) hovering over a girl splayed on the floor. Victim statement says that in the 90s maxwell ‘recruited’ a girl under promises of modeling career. Andrew tortured her and the other victim and then killed her. Norway Princess entertained a close relationship with Epstein, nature unclear, and her only defense was “I made a bad judgment call”. Her own son was/is investigated for counts of rape and beating girlfriends. King of another scandinavian country sending epstein a picture of his daughter from their vacation in africa. Nothing NSFW but still weird
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speaking of modeling, lots of these agencies were involved with the epstein operation, providing him girls. Some of these agencies are in the newly released files. Not entirely new but this is how it transits; they had an entire industrial operation and pipeline.
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video of epstein leaving his own apartment in sydney with then-australian PM Paul Keating’s daughter. Accounts on her age vary, supposedly she was in her 20s at the time.
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Peggy Siegal email (Epstein’s publicist): “can I bring back a little baby for you… or two?” the email was titled Kenya.
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Steven Hawking mentioned in the files as having participated in an underage orgy, ostensibly. I’m more concerned about the living so I didn’t look more.
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More Chomsky emails. Email conversations and tax filings, one email about how epstein can navigate the allegations with Chomsky offering advice (!), and another about Epstein telling chomsky about his IQ theories and eugenics views.
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email from epstein about ‘doing something’ about a ‘russian girl’ (says she was ‘trying to blackmail some businessmen’). Email also contains her full name and hotel location which definitely raises questions.
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“I am giving you permission to kill him” from redacted sender to epstein. More protection of perpetrators going on. No more context. Actually - just saw now it’s probably Susan Hamblin; they redacted poorly in one picture and the name is legible.
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Apparently Trump met Melania (current wife) through Epstein? Some of these are cryptic. He seems to have met her at one of these ‘parties’.
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peter mandelson, architect of the new labor movement in the UK, was a big friend of epstein. they often shared “I am thinking of you” emails.
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pictures of film producer brett ratner with underage girls alongside epstein.
Halfway through I decided to delete the list because I couldn’t continue but I think it’s important to type this all out and conserve it. I think more stuff will come out of this latest round, but this is what I’ve seen mentioned so far.
I’ve seen my fair share of gore and shock content in the past but these documents take the cake for being the most vile and unsettling shit I’ve ever read holy fuck
I usually have a strong stomach for these things (Probably due to desensitization. Growing up on late 2000’s and early 2010’s internet unsupervised fucks people up, evidently) but this has been one of the few things I’ve ever seen so far to make me feel actually sick to my stomach.
We have been reminded once again that the Bourgeoisie are irredeemable in every conceivable way, and only Communist revolution can save us.
Today is a horrible day to have eyes.Thanks for sharing this. The stuff I have seen from this list so far has been insane to say the leaset. I wonder if at some point we will get a more organized list based on country/region. It’s all interconnected I know, but at the very least knowing which people in you country did certain things is helpful when talking to people locally.
Thanks for the sources, you and u/rainpizza
I definitely agree with the warnings. I’m going into it because I want to make sure I’m informed in spite of it hurting to read, but people don’t need to know every horrific thing done in detail, in order to understand how bad imperialism and capitalism are.
this seems like a perfect opportunity to dig up some golf courses
and holy shit this is complete insanity.
Thanks for your work. Your synopsis has a better “information : psychic damage” ratio than most other discussions on the topic
Fucking monsters.
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Just adding to crit’s response, you can still check the retweets on Nitter without an account.
Thank you.
I posted about it in the general thread. In my comment, I added the archive link -> https://lemmygrad.ml/post/10497882/7676075
Also, be warned. It is horrible.
NGL it’s all bad, so far but the HW Bush thing shook me. Is that where they got the adenocrome accusations?
Holy shit, I finally saw that file that you were referencing!
spoiler
Is it this file? Damn, these people are monsters.
Yeah it’s all bad.
I really want to believe some absurdities have been made up and added in to muddy the waters, but who tf knows with these sickos
I have no idea about that one. However, I do know that the one with the Cartel of Sinaloa confirmed to me what happened to some migrant children in Mexico.
OMG I saw them. I just didn’t see “Sinaeola Cártel.” So sorry!
Yup, you can probably guess from where is that young girl that Robin Leach choked to death.
Yeah. 🫤
Jesus Christ I haven’t seen it yet. Is it in the archive link you posted?
I honestly just want to kms tbh. I know, I know “it won’t change anything, thats what they want you to do” etc. Etc. But I can’t bear living like this. Knowing…just…knowing…
Comrade no. Don’t channel that energy into damaging yourself. Don’t let Trump and all of those capitalist scum go that easy. Use that rage and desire for justice to organize people that have the same rage as you. We all know that plenty of people will feel despair, rage and sadness after seeing those files. What we are all watching is the most criminal side of the capitalists being laid bare and that will radicalize plenty of people while reducing the apolitical ones to the minimum.
Please, use that energy into forming and mobilizing the masses so that one day a better world could be born. A world where the criminal pedophiles pay for all of their crimes. A world more humane where no one has to suffer like those young girls did.
What does it accomplish? One less of us?
