- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
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I should download classic wow servers game and addons for long term storage in case of WW3 🤔 and wikipedia too
wow before wiki… priorities.
Culture is important ! Science too I guess hut we have libraries
😭
How close do you need to be to another node to get it to work?
I don’t know, numbers online vary wildly.
So, I setup meshtastic.
Put an antenna on my roof.
Have a decent number of mesh radios. Put one in each car in relay mode.
Setup a locally run LLM and made an interface to it.
Working on setting up a BBS.
I’m in the high density suburbs, I can, when the weather is just right, reach a single node that doesn’t seem to be able to reach any other nodes.
If I go on a drive, I can see 5-10 nodes.
Adoption in the mid-Atlantic US is just so damn low, it’s not really usable.
We need some antennas up high, but there aren’t any reasonable options around me.
Meshcore 😎 you could see if there’s more density of MC around you.
There are 4 in my metropolitan area, and I don’t have line of sight to any of them :(
There are about 30 meshtastic in the same area, but most of them are out of range to each other.
I even stood one up at work on the other side of town and mqtt’d them together.
edit: a’ight I put it on a t114. can’t see anything from the house, track practice is 25mi away, lets see if there are any quiet core nodes out there.
edit: edit: Nothing at all. Which is a fing shame, the client is way nicer, it’s better on battery. It’s better on battery on the t114. The map is faster. I think it’s probably a better product since you can kind of emulate the client/router setup and it can work like meshtastic. Maybe I’ll leave my of my v3’s running on it in the attic with a modest antenna upgrade.
Heck yeah get on the map. My area sees new repeaters weekly. If you build it they will come and it sounds like you know what to do.
No wonder how hard it would be to bridge mesh core in MQTT in my area.
How resilient is something like Meshtastic? My understanding is that anyone can configure their device poorly so that it can become overly chatty, congesting the network. Even in ideal an ideal scenario with properly configured nodes, could this actually survive if it saw more than hobbiest adoption?
I think it’s really cool and i like having this idea of a backup communication system, but if has serious range limitations and is likely to be overwhelmed in a no-cell scenario is it even worth it, or is it just fun to play around with?
By default it implements rough limits that you cannot exceed to make sure that you do not not transmit too much noise. Additionally, you can always establish private channels for your nodes and / or not retransmit at all.
Meshtastic isn’t intended for mission-critical uses or as an internet substitute. It is intended for very basic text based communication (e.g. between your friends) or remote IoT devices.
The congestion argument also applies to all radio based communication, there are always people transmitting with high gain, noisy outputs or spam.
Yeah, I understand the limitations of the frequency and the compromises mesh networks have to make. I wouldn’t expect it to be an internet substitute. My point is, and I do apologise because I cannot remember the source, I recall hearing about a convention or a protest or some larger gathering where people tried to use Meshtastic and it cratered due to load.
If that above case actually did happen and I’m not mis-remembering, then it doesn’t bode well for adoption by the non-tech savvy. You get into this odd area where you have tech and RF hobbiests that think this is cool beans, but they don’t make up enough people for a robust network. However the more people you bring on that don’t understand radio settings the more succeptible you are to poor performance. Then if it ever does it mass adoption it is likely oitside the abilities of the tech and scale just isn’t possible. You need this sweet spot.
With ham or something else you can have a few people in more remote locations because of superior range, but with low powered RF like Meshtastic you really want portable devices for people on the ground. All this is to say I love the idea of being able to give something like this to a loved one going to a protest or something, but I’m just not sure if it’s more than a toy yet.
I’m not sure what they could do to keep this open while ensuring stability unless they start to add dynamic settings to tje protocol. Something that detects if there’s too much congestion, or if signals are too strong to automatically switch from LongFast to something more applicable to a the dense group you’re in. Then manual settings get hidden behind an advanced menu? But that would be entirely on tje firmware to control.
Anyway, I’m rambling and trying to solution without actually owning one, so I could be way off. I just really like the idea of short range personal communication and want this to be more than a tinker tech.
In Switzerland, we already switched to MediumFast due to congestion in cities. It was a coordinated change and real world tests showed no significant worse mesh performance for most nodes. Meshtastic is evolving fast and I think it does become more and more viable as an off-grid or doomsday communication. It also is hard to censor which could be useful for journalism and free speech. Hence, not a substitute for the internet, but a more and more viable solution for many.
Can’t speak about any mass gatherings or protests, but haven’t had any issues so far with mine. Even in big cities, air util and ch util is below 35% so there is a lot more space available.
What time zone?
CET, it’s in the title
Sadly I missed it. Was it recorded?
I’ll say what I just said on a similar thread: if the internet goes down tomorrow, mesh will mean very little compared to ham radio.
Any quality transceiver built in the last 100 years will be more useful. It is purely about how many exist, how long they last, and their requirements for use (which are effectively, power and antenna).
Yes, there is a license that you need in non-emergency situations. It doesn’t change much anything in emergency situations, and it certainly doesn’t affect the fact that there are already millions of radios out there.
I certainly wouldn’t throw away a mesh if the world was ending – I’d set it on the desk while finding contacts on HF (=world band) using a ham radio. My chances of contact there are at least an order of magnitude better.
I’ve come to the realization that mesh nodes are little more than a gateway drug into the world of ham radio. And for that I’m grateful.
It’s not as good, and does everything worse than radio. The only real world use I have found is for when cellphone networks get overwhelmed at things like music festivals and large sports games. No one else’s texts go through, but I can toss by buds a node to put in their back pocket and we can stay in touch.
our local mature club is building our local mesh network out now as an introduction to the ham world. And it’s working. It’s getting the younger kids and adults through the door. And from there, it’s an easy thing to get them interested in more useful and fun forms of communication.
Now that I like. And I think there is room for both – IF people know and understand the differences.
Mesh against ham in an emergency is not even a competition, in my view. The numbers just aren’t there. But for random cellular failures etc, I see some utility.
Personally, I’ve just seen so much more about mesh lately than ham, and it makes me sad. If it’s a gateway, as you suggest, then great. I worry that people see it as a novelty and not a gateway.
Meshtastic has some store-and-forward stuff that’s damn nice but someone has to set it up.
Meshcore has routers, repeaters and mailboxes.
It it could be pushed up to a few watts it would be far more useful.
Every year I see more on the map. Have a solar node, good fun.
Ever useful? I doubt it, HAM would dominate in a collapse.
In a true emergency? Yes, HAM is the way to go and I need to get around to buying one of those super sketchy Baofengs. In theory you can configure them to use without a license (which is also on the todo list) but it is super easy to tick into the licensed use. How much people will care will mostly depend on whether your local HAM folk are narcs. But, regardless, all bets are off in a true emergency and Baofengs are dirt cheap.
But in a “the internet is out” situation? Or even a “please evacuate in a calm and orderly fashion” for a wildfire or a bad hurricane? That is where meshtastic (et al) shine and it is well worth convincing friends to pick up a t-deck or whatever. Excellent for the “is it out for everyone or just me?” checks. Also useful for letting people know which field can see a cell tower a county or two over for emergency communication or to even coordinate whether you are all gonna head North or South to hang out for (hopefully just) a few days.
And anyone thinking of using any of that for stuff the government don’t want you to: You are an idiot and you need to learn about how insecure all of those are.
Ham radio played a massive role while the Internet was out following hurricane Helene. https://youtu.be/w8hSHq8dGsA
Yes. For true emergency/disaster relief, that is the baseline. I doubt most of the meshtastic repeaters will survive a real storm and you can bet people will be spamming/attacking longfast from the comfort of their homes a county or three over. And there is no good way to communicate proper regional channels ahead of time.
But not every internet outage is a disaster. I live in a region where it is not uncommon for construction crews to cut the fiber line and take out all traffic for the county… sometimes multiple times a month… And I can speak from experience that having a mesh network with locals is incredibly useful for “Yes, it is all of us. And Verizon/Tmobile/Spring is also out” as well as “If you go to the park on 5th and MLK you have line of sight to a working cell tower”. And even just “So… I got all of Frasier on my Plex if anyone wants to hang out for a few hours”.
If you whip out your emergency HAM radios (without a license) during that? You can bet ALL the narcs are gonna tattle on you because “you weren’t prepared”.
But even during the prelude to a disaster it can be an issue. We also have wildfires in the region and get a pretty big scare maybe once a decade. Last time we were in a state of “be ready to evacuate at a moment’s notice” for the better part of a week. And just a bit of gossip that “today is going to be the day” was enough to trigger panic and clog up cell service faster than you can say “9-11”. We even got an emergency push telling us that there were no planned evacuation orders for the day and to go about normal activities.
If you are someone frantically trying to figure out where the school took your kids? Yeah, you have an emergency. If you are someone who doesn’t have a strong support network trying to figure out what is even going on? The narcs are gonna whinge at you. But, like I said, it is very useful to coordinate your evac with that support network. You can plan ahead of time to try to all get hotels/campsites in the town a few hours North. Then you drive through the hell of the evac until you get a few cell towers away, pull over, and use an app to book a hotel/campsite. But if all the people with families have to go South to pick up their kids from the school drop off site? You can only communicate when you are all an hour or three away from town and… ain’t nobody going back through that traffic snarl.
Hopefully it ends up being a false alarm and you come back a week or two later to some smoke damage (that everyone TOTALLY fixes…) and not much else. But it’s the difference between a week or two where you are able to hang out with your friends and have some degree of normalcy versus a week or two isolated and worried that you are going to lose everything.
And that is where mesh networks thrive. I am not talking about “I have a repeater in my garden” (which I should get on…). Stuff like the t-deck is what is actually useful. Plug it in, turn it on, and the pseudo-blackberries mesh with each other well enough for coordinating because enough people in town are doing the exact same thing.
One thing that people trying to make Meshtastic/Meshpro/whatever work might want to try:
odds are that your town/community have a social media system that is generally used to discuss events and the like (probably facebook, sometimes reddit). Make a post on there basically providing a link to a “getting started” guide and the credentials/key for the local mesh.
And, most importantly: Schedule an event (maybe every other month or once a quarter) where everyone with a device should turn theirs on and either be near a window or stand outside. That is a great way to rapidly detect all the temporary nodes that might only exist during a “not emergency” and for people to debug all the messes because meshtastic is a cluster.
You just can’t legally transmit without a license. You can own a ham radio and listen all you want.
Perhaps where you live.
Internet 101: Laws aren’t the same everywhere.
Edit: My point wasn’t specifically about amateur radio (I’m also one) nor where I live, but about the old-as-the-internet habit of people scoffing about what is and isn’t legal without even knowing where the person they’re replying to lives.
On the radio front, numerous countries require licences to legally listen to public broadcast radio (Switzerland, Slovenia and Montenegro are examples). If your handy dandy Baofeng UV5 can pick up broadcast FM radio frequencies, in such countries it will fall under licencing requirements even if you never transmit.
yes they are
People who actually have to work and get the bread of the day are not spending money on that. IMHO. Sorry if I sound rude but honestly unless you want to experiment with something that hardly will have any real impact in real life you are just wasting money.
To use these kind of devices you need at least two people using it.
Anyway I guess people spend their money on whatever they want.
Meshtatic radios are very cheap, about $20. It’s one of their main drivers of their popularity.
To use these kind of devices you need at least two people using it.
🤣🤣🤣 A communications device that requires a receiver and a sender??? Oh, how useless!
There’s over 300 meshtastic radios in my area.
My point is, you need two devices and ALSO the knowledge to set up these devices, it was implicit in the comment, some “normal” people even need support to setup WhatsApp do you really think they will use that kind of stuff? $20 is not a lot of money but there are people who can’t afford it anyway. Unless you live in an overpopulated area it will be pretty hard to find someone else using that kind of device, it’s just another hobby like VHF/UHF and CB.
Meshtastic it’s just coping it don’t have a real application and supposing someone make a business and start deploying the system for money the kind of people who are into it will say “greedy fuckers”
