Scenario: Undocumented immigrant family in Minneapolis get in their Tesla car to go to work, school or shopping. The doors lock and are disabled via software OTA. Because they are not mechanical, the family can’t open the doors. They try to roll down a window, but that too is software controlled. The buttons do nothing. They are trapped.
The car then disables the steering colums via OTA software so the wheel goes limp. It is a drive by wire steering with no mechanical, rack and pinion physical link for the driver to control. Even the brakes are fully drive by wire so the driver can’t stop the car.
The cars autodrive engages and sends the trapped family to an ICE detention facility. In a panic the driver tries to turn off the car and finds that button is software controlled as well. The family find they are disconnected from their own car and are left with the choice of smashing a window and jumping out of a moving car, or to be sent to a processing facility for their concentration camp.
Is there any design feature stopping this from from hapening today?
Edit: In hindsight, it seems like this was the obvious design goal all along. The user has been completely disconnected from control of anything and it is to my understanding 100% drive by wire.
Edit 2: Another possibility is simple deactivation so people can’t drive out of an area. Imagine ICE sweep an area and deactivate all software controlled cars.
Maybe Trump wants to punish a region showing defiance and disable cars, or cause them to drive to pickup locations.
Edit 3: I’m also reminded of the internal cameras that can use facial recognition to identify undesirables and can either be remotely disabled and report undesirables for ICE pickup, or self-drive as stated earlier. It seems everything about this car is designed for dual use. Weaponizing a consumer good under the guise of features and convenience.
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I think this assumes Teslas will be way more popular that they ever actually will be.
Fingers crossed. But the software controls of similar design are spreading. Let’s not pretend governments and corporations don’t love controls.
There must be a way to disable the vehicle’s remote connectivity. Probably not as simple as opening a fuse though.
I’m searching for Tesla modders/hackers info but not finding much.
What I can see are articles saying there is a software setting that disables networking and GPS tracking. However because its not open source, those setting might be disabling your use of those features superficially, while everything stays on in the background and is still fully in control of Tesla.
I would love if anyone from the hacker community could speak to this with real experience.
As far as I know, every Tesla has a mechanical backup door release. Some are just hidden in such a way that you’ll never find them in an emergency if you didn’t already know where to look
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/cybertruck/en_us/GUID-903C82F8-8F52-450C-82A8-B9B4B34CD54E.html
Thank you. Still not reassuring. But it is tangible. Why go to such lengths to hide it?
I simply wouldn’t trust any technology from a Trump/GOP ally that you aren’t forced to.
that you aren’t forced to.
There are researches who have already shown it’s possible to see a cars location, stop it, and unlock it’s doors. People have also hacked into car cameras and seen in peoples homes etc. Also due to Biden’s 2024(?) Infrastructure Act all new cars built have a kill switch that’s accessible by a “3rd party”. Besides the 3rd party, no backdoor can be made that can’t also be accessed by good hackers
This is why I keep saying the future sucks. Bring back 1999 please. Cars were perfect until about 2010. People were way to willing to give in to surveillance for sake of convenience. But humans are stupid and lazy above all.
I totally agree. Luckily for me I have an old mechanically operated car that I plan to keep forever.
So the family being delivered to ICE has to hope a benevolent hacker community can somehow hack that particular vehicle within the 20 minute window of a drive to a concentration camp? Does this sound reasonable to you?
Does Biden’s law, or any for that matter have real impact today?
Is this 3rd party control easily removed with a software update?
Your answer is deeply disatisfying.
So the family being delivered to ICE has to hope a benevolent hacker community can somehow hack that particular vehicle within the 20 minute window of a drive to a concentration camp? Does this sound reasonable to you?
I suppose maybe in the future as car hacking gets more common and attrocities from our government worse, there might be hackers viewing protests from the sidelines specifically waiting for these situations.
Does Biden’s law, or any for that matter have real impact today?
I haven’t heard of a situation in which a kill switches was activated. This does not mean it hasn’t happened. The fact that it exists can only lead to exploitation in the future. It’s also being normalized as people don’t speak against it.
Is this 3rd party control easily removed with a software update?
No. I’m a mechanic and learning to hack. All car systems are different. One day when I’m confident in my abilities I’ll share my knowledge to help others.
Your answer is deeply disatisfying.
Unfortunately yes
Smash the window, you can get one of those hammers for breaking tempered glass and with a belt cutter on the other end.
Now smash a few sensors.
Or don’t buy, or get into a swasticar in the first place.
Far more fun to set fire to them at the dealership. They are just sitting there, being all flammable…
A key safety feature built into such automated systems is the ability to physically override the controls if needed. There was actually a case of a plane crash due to this feature and some egregious lapses in safety protocols. Pilot had his kids in the cockpit. Plane on autopilot. Kid sitting at the controls pretending to fly the plane. Accidentally overrides the autopilot and steers it into an unrecoverable spin.
This kind of feature is mandated. If they had some super secret back door to override that, that would be legit cause for civil war. Remotely disabling the car and providing location to ICE to come pick them up is still egregious but something they could currently do.
Tesla does have mechanical handles for the doors on the inside. You just need to know how it works.
There are just so many dumb people in the world who does not even know how to turn off for lights, and you expect them to figure out these “hidden” latches?
Jesus, I was driven home by a classmate once, and his windshield was so dirty I turned on the wiper with washing (I don’t know what it’s called, English is not my mother tongue), and he asked me how I did that. The idiot had had a licence for 2 years, and didn’t even know this.
In the door cubby, covered in everyday items, under a rubber mat then open a latch then pull the cable. In case of emergencies.
~~Or… Just hear me out… It’s under the door handle: ~~
Sometimes people shock me with how ignorant they are, just because they don’t like something.I’m the ignorant one here.
Tesla Manual Door Release in Rear Passenger Doors (Model 3/Y)
This one is tricky because it is hidden and difficult to open. It helps to have a flashlight too.
Locate the rear door pocket Remove bottom inner linertesla bottom liner Remove Inner Liner
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Locate a square tab on the floor of the pocket (using a flashlight will help)
Flashlight pictured is from Jowua, on Amazon
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Lift the square tab (this is harder than it looks and may require a small tool for leverage) tesla rear door manual release Square Tab tesla rear door manual release Lift Square Tab (may require small tool)
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Once the square tab is lifted, you’ll see a white foam piece. Pull the white foam piece, and the door will open
What was that again about shocking levels of ignorance?
The fuck is that? Someone in an emergency is supposed to follow a 13 step instruction just to get out of their (potentially burning) car ?!
The one that @P1nkman showed was already hidden enough, but this is a whole other level
H… o…,… Fuck. Wait. No. Huh??
What the actual shit??? I have a model 3 (different discussion, I hate Mush as much as the next person) , and this is not how mine is! I’m going to admit that I’m the ignorant person here, 100%!! And thank you for being pedantic, because I needed it in this thread!
But HOLY FUCK THAT’S DUMB!!!
I’m going to edit my comment (not remove anything).
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Their sales would take a massive hit the first time they tried it. (Not that Musk seems to care much about his brand image these days.)
I’m not so sure there is anybody that doesn’t already consider Tesla a toxic brand besides people who would approve of this scenario and assume it could never happen to them.
Agreed. But as I understand it, it is possible today. If their dream of full autodrive and market domination comes true, then you wouldn’t even have a choice in the matter.
Could be a near future where the undesirables take an autocab.
I see downvotes already. Can I please get a compelling argument why my scenario is not possible?
A version of your scenario ran on Black Mirror, if I’m not mistaken.
As for why this won’t happen, or at least not yet:
- there’s an emergency mechanical release for Tesla doors, may damage the windows, but hey
- speaking of damaging windows, there’s this little hammer that everyone should have in their cars, but especially in Teslas
- last, but not least, if they’re not actually illegals, just imagine the lawsuit, and the brand damage to follow
Actually, if a Tesla could be proven do that, it would be done as a car company. Who in their right mind would buy something like that? And I guarantee it would be public knowledge, as I find it hard to believe that all regulatory bodies in the world (eg Norway) would collude to hide such a feature.
Plenty of actual reasons why elon and his swasticar sucks. No need for hypotheticals on top.
You realize tesla was already caught remotely disabling a guy’s car because he was modding it?
They can do all of this already. They can set the accelerator to 100% remotely if they want to, would take zero effort and then they can say it was a malfunction.
Now we are all being pin point tracked with our phones and recorded already of course, but the Tesla has GPS they can access and find you at any time too.
To be fair, every car can do this now even if its gas, because of all the bullshit electronics In cars. Its super easy to disable a normal gas car by shutting down the coil packs.
You realize tesla was already caught remotely disabling a guy’s car because he was modding it?
Do you have a link? I only recall some dubious claim of a Cybertruck dude, but there were counterallegations he was just some rapper who wanted cheap publicity. I don’t remember what the conclusion of that incident was.
I am aware that DMCA was specifically designed to stop modders/hackers from benefitting from their property and extorting repair bills by forcing users to go only to tesla dealerships for a lot of work. No right to repair.
“Actually, if a Tesla could be proven do that, it would be done as a car company. Who in their right mind would buy something like that?”
You are hilarious. You think consumers have logic? They voted for Drumpf again after 4 years of hell. People STILL BUY teslas after musky did a full on nazi salute in public. If tesla were shown to kill immigrants on command, Americans would flock to buy even more of them.
Tesla does a lot of business overseas. A lot less these days, but there’s still water in that well, which would dry up pretty fast though following such a scenario. I don’t know the numbers, but if they sell more than half their cars on US soil I’d be very surprised.
Now picture this news leaking out in Europe, like Norway for instance. That would be reason enough for government mandated firmware hacking, and Tesla as a commercial entity would be done.
Let me ask you this instead. Do you see ICE capable of such a technically sophisticated, precision operation at scale? ICE is a blunt instrument currently being used to punish Democrat states - the fact they’re looking for illegals in Illlinois and Minneapolis when Texas and Florida have at least 10x more is what’s hilarious for me. And honestly, if I drove a Tesla in the US today, I’d be more worried about being shot in the head by ICE through the side window than being kidnapped by my car.
Like I said previously, plenty of reason to dislike both Tesla and ICE, no need to add hypothetical Black Mirror scenarios to the mix.
very true!
there’s an emergency mechanical release for Tesla doors, may damage the windows, but hey
A quick search tells me this is only model 3 from Shanghai because they insisted. Do you know what models and years have this mechanical latch, because there is a lot of press about accidents made worse due to their absence. Edit: I see cybertruck also have a hidden emergency latch. Why hide it? Edit 2: More on latches here. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/10/05/the-hidden-lever-a-psa-what-teslas-door-handles-reveal-about-its-safety-culture/
- speaking of damaging windows, there’s this little hammer that everyone should have in their cars, but especially in Teslas
Yes, but that speaks to my point, not against it.
- last, but not least, if they’re not actually illegals, just imagine the lawsuit, and the brand damage to follow
What part of brand (brain) damage do you think Trump and Musk will stop at? We haven’t seen it yet. As for hypotheticals, I’m talking about the real here and now design decision that disconnects the driver from all controls and the potential for its abuse. You’re eagerness to dismiss the potential for abuse, considering the current environment is disturbing.
I don’t know enough about Tesla models to reply, that’s just a fact I filed away at some point under strange design decisions - you must agree that having a door latch that damages your car window on use is strange.
But I feel like you’re looking at this from a purely US-centric view (I’m not US based myself, just to be clear). Tesla can’t afford not to sell overseas, so it can’t afford the loss of reputation. Besides, there’s potential for abuse in all cars with a central computer and a connection to the Internet these days: lock doors & broadcast location is a trivial feature to implement. It just doesn’t make sense practically for ICE to pursue this,at least in my opinion.
All true. But the car does seem to be designed for weaponization. You talk about the hit to reputation, but what hit would they take? An OTA assasination is just an everyday car accident. Plausible deniability. A kidnapped family won’t tell the press anything. Undesirables were disappeared by ICE. There is no one to tell the story, thus no story to tell.
I’m downvoting for your edit, because you sound like a conspiracy nut.
As others have pointed out, there are manual overrides for these things, as mandated by law.
The fact that they are hard to find has nothing to do with nefarious intent. Tesla wanted their cars to feel sleek and futuristic. Having a big clunky red handle labelled “emergency door release” or whatever would ruin the aesthetic.
Similarly, the “computerized everything” aspect of the vehicles can be explained entirely by Tesla’s branding as “the car of the future”. People who don’t trust computers might be put off, but tech-ignorant techno-optimists would be drawn to it.
Teslas were built according to this design long before Musk aligned himself with Trump. It seems highly unlikely that Musk was secretly designing immigrant deportation machines when his main customer base was people with “No Human Is Illegal” yard signs.
Finally, Teslas are luxury vehicles. And now they are luxury vehicles for conservatives. If Musk’s plan was to use his vehicles for mass deportation of immigrants, he would be an idiot for trying to sell a $100,000 Cybertruck to José who works for less than minimum wage in the meat processing plant and his wife Maria who makes even less at the industrial laundry. The only immigrants driving Teslas are 45 year old Indian tech bros who think Elon Musk is great and young women should stop dressing so immodestly.
So sure, maybe, possibly, this could happen a few times theoretically. But if you look at it with any actual context in the real world, you’ll see that, no, this is not going to happen, and no one is planning for it to happen.
Finally, Teslas are luxury vehicles.
Having sat my ass in a few, they most definitely are not luxury vehicles. Maybe the S or X (I haven’t been in one so cannot assess), but not the others.
To be clear, I do not own one nor have I ever owned one.
And I’m downvoting you for saying “conspiracy nut” in the age of American Fascism and naked imperialism.
Its in the streets. In your neighbourhoods. The naked abuse of power laid bare. You are still saying “It can’t happen here.”
There is a difference between acknowledging the bad things that are happening and taking steps to push back, and panicking and thinking up every possible bad thing that could happen and treating it as real - which is what you are doing.
Teslas make up a small minority of vehicles on the road, and are luxury vehicles which now carry a conservative reputation. The idea that someone would be locked in their Tesla in order to be deported is, at best, an unwarranted distraction thought up by a spiraling doomer - not a serious concern for anyone living in the real world.
panicking and thinking up every possible bad thing that could happen and treating it as real
OCD in a nutshell
“Panicking” is bad faith rhetoric. As is “doomer” and pretty much everything you just said.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thought. I’m saying it doesn’t hold up to scrutiny… like… at all. So all you are doing is fearmongering.
Look at the front page of any newspaper today in the world. Then come back to tell me I’m fearmongering.
Don’t be an apologist for fascists.
I have.
You’re fearmongering.
This is like saying Elon Musk is planning to raise Godzilla from the depths of the oceans to round up immigrants. Saying “that is not a realistic thing to be worried about” isn’t being an apologist. It is having basic common sense.
Not the person you originally replied to, but you’re toeing the line of conspiracy nut. It sounds like it comes from a general lack of knowledge on a subject you have had no need to look into. Which is perfectly fine. But it’s very far from reality. I have a tesla and the scenario of locking me in and dropping me off at an ICE center is impossible. I have an older one that lacks full self driving hardware so there’s no computer code that could execute most of what you described. Now this comes from my direct knowledge of having owned one. This might have been more appropriate for a “nostupidquestions” style community.
I have an older one that lacks full self driving hardware.
Good for you. And for everybody else? Anecdote does not equal evidence.
Your ignorance does not equal reality. What you quoted wasn’t an anecdote. It’s a fact. As I said above, you not knowing that fact is perfectly fine. Getting snippy with me trying to provide some knowledge on the subject is just weird.
It’s fine to not address the question asked about all the cars that do have auto drive and whine about your one irrelevant fact. Just don’t be under the impression you are contributing to the conversation, for or against in any meaningful way. Calling someone ignorant is just bad faith discussion.
I did address the question in a parent comment. This chain is responding to someone else calling you a conspiracy theorist. The only one whining is you. As I mentioned before it’s perfectly alright to not have that knowledge if you’ve never had need of it. As someone with the knowledge I tried to elaborate for your benefit. You chose to embrace your ignorance and push on with whining. You have very little understanding of what “auto drive” actually is. Again, that shouldn’t be something to be ashamed of. Getting all pissy when someone tries to provide that knowledge is exactly what I’d expect from the type of idiots who would support the situation in your initial post. Be better than them.
