Grow a garden that can feed an extended family in nutrient poor soil with a musket. You’re looking at it the wrong way if you’re viewing one as better than the other and not just different technologies.
Technology alone doesn’t win wars. Hernan Cortez only subdued the Aztecs thanks to managing to get several other native groups to join in on an assault against Tenochtitlan. Diseases that were new to the Americas also killed many natives, way more than any direct confrontations. On an funny note, the Australian army technically lost a war against emus, which are large, flightless birds.
Keep in mind that colonial powers always used local groups to keep things “in order”. This was no different to how they did it in African and Asian colonies: find a group that you can bully or buy and ensure they stay in power, for a price.
I’ll grant…just about all of that. Though my understanding of the “emu war” was like three dudes in a truck with a box of bullets.
Let me ask you this though: Why isn’t that what would have happened if they landed in ancient Egypt? Indulge the sci-fi scenario a little bit, 11 ships carrying 600 16th century CE Spanish Conquistadors land in the Levant circa 2600 BCE. Why would it go any different for Khufu than it did for Montezuma? Would Cortes not win some early victories against some small coastal tribes, capture him a woman that speaks a couple local languages, learn who the major power in the region is, start gathering allies among the locals who’ve lived under Egypt’s thumb and would like to get a piece of that highfalutin pharaoh, and then march his combined army on Memphis? All the while the natives are dying of all the diseases that the 15th century has that the -25th doesn’t?
Would Cortes not win some early victories against some small coastal tribes, capture him a woman that speaks a couple local languages, learn who the major power in the region is,
Yes
start gathering allies among the locals who’ve lived under Egypt’s thumb and would like to get a piece of that highfalutin pharaoh,
This is where things break. Do you know enough about the different people living under the Pharaoh’s rule in the era you’re talking about? I don’t. Thus, I cannot say whether Cortez would manage to find enough support to march to the capital, be hailed as the incarnation of some god, or whether the translator would try to warn everyone that the conquistadors are a bunch of pillaging pirates that should be killed, with them being none the wiser. When you’re a stranger in someone else’s land and everyone absolutely hates you above all else, you can’t even breathe without fear of being ambushed. Sure, they have these frightening tools that are louder than thunder, create foul smoke and kill people from a distance, but those things won’t protect your back from being shanked
Or, let’s throw a more recent perspective: USA vs. Taliban, 2001-2021. One side has drones, aerial supremacy, satellite imagery, smart missiles, aircraft carriers. The other has mostly just small arms, weapons that at most, need to be mounted on a pickup truck, no tanks, no planes, it was a bunch of fanatics using guerilla tactics. USA never managed to fully beat the Taliban and, after the end of the withdrawal, it didn’t take 2 weeks before they seized power.
Was the United States trying to kill all the Afghanis, raise the Stars and Stripes over Afghanistan and start mining and farming the place for goods to ship back home? Not sure it’s a fair comparison given the differing goals. I’m pretty sure we were using Afghanistan as the Military Industrial Complex’s cum dumpster.
Sure, they have these frightening tools that are louder than thunder, create foul smoke and kill people from a distance, but those things won’t protect your back from being shanked
No, that’s what a quirass is for. That’s why they wore those.
I’m sure they spent 24/7 with a cuirass in the Central American heat. Also, not every Spaniard in those expeditions had the money to buy one for themselves.
EDIT:
Was the United States trying to kill all the Afghanis,
No, neither was Spain in America, since the natives could be captured as slaves
raise the Stars and Stripes over Afghanistan and start mining and farming the place for goods to ship back home?
Pretty sure that ended up being one of the things during the occupation, yes.
That your hippy dippy “different technologies” take is kind of naive
Don’t sit here and act like you don’t live as the beneficiary of thousands of years of selective breeding of Mesoamerican staple crops, not even to touch on the medications you take that come from the Americas. I’m talking about them as different technologies because they are, and recreating things like terra preta is an active area of research for current day use. Because, guess what, our current technology that you’re jacking off about sucks ass and relies on dumping a metric fuckton of nitrogen and phosphorous in the form of fertilizer runoff into waterways, creating enormous dead zones.
‘Who can kill the most people with it’ is a very American way of understanding the past or technology in general. You can’t kill anyone with a telescope, that doesn’t mean it’s not a technology.
Grow a garden that can feed an extended family in nutrient poor soil with a musket. You’re looking at it the wrong way if you’re viewing one as better than the other and not just different technologies.
Okay, build me a diesel powered tractor with tiller attachment out of obsidian.
The other answer:
Okay. points musket at brown people Start tilling.
I’m extremely confused by the thesis of your argument here. What is the point you’re trying to make?
That your hippy dippy “different technologies” take is kind of naive. You sound like a kindergarten teacher handing out participation trophies.
These two peoples with these two “different technologies” fought. Who won?
Technology alone doesn’t win wars. Hernan Cortez only subdued the Aztecs thanks to managing to get several other native groups to join in on an assault against Tenochtitlan. Diseases that were new to the Americas also killed many natives, way more than any direct confrontations. On an funny note, the Australian army technically lost a war against emus, which are large, flightless birds.
Keep in mind that colonial powers always used local groups to keep things “in order”. This was no different to how they did it in African and Asian colonies: find a group that you can bully or buy and ensure they stay in power, for a price.
I’ll grant…just about all of that. Though my understanding of the “emu war” was like three dudes in a truck with a box of bullets.
Let me ask you this though: Why isn’t that what would have happened if they landed in ancient Egypt? Indulge the sci-fi scenario a little bit, 11 ships carrying 600 16th century CE Spanish Conquistadors land in the Levant circa 2600 BCE. Why would it go any different for Khufu than it did for Montezuma? Would Cortes not win some early victories against some small coastal tribes, capture him a woman that speaks a couple local languages, learn who the major power in the region is, start gathering allies among the locals who’ve lived under Egypt’s thumb and would like to get a piece of that highfalutin pharaoh, and then march his combined army on Memphis? All the while the natives are dying of all the diseases that the 15th century has that the -25th doesn’t?
Yes
This is where things break. Do you know enough about the different people living under the Pharaoh’s rule in the era you’re talking about? I don’t. Thus, I cannot say whether Cortez would manage to find enough support to march to the capital, be hailed as the incarnation of some god, or whether the translator would try to warn everyone that the conquistadors are a bunch of pillaging pirates that should be killed, with them being none the wiser. When you’re a stranger in someone else’s land and everyone absolutely hates you above all else, you can’t even breathe without fear of being ambushed. Sure, they have these frightening tools that are louder than thunder, create foul smoke and kill people from a distance, but those things won’t protect your back from being shanked
Or, let’s throw a more recent perspective: USA vs. Taliban, 2001-2021. One side has drones, aerial supremacy, satellite imagery, smart missiles, aircraft carriers. The other has mostly just small arms, weapons that at most, need to be mounted on a pickup truck, no tanks, no planes, it was a bunch of fanatics using guerilla tactics. USA never managed to fully beat the Taliban and, after the end of the withdrawal, it didn’t take 2 weeks before they seized power.
Was the United States trying to kill all the Afghanis, raise the Stars and Stripes over Afghanistan and start mining and farming the place for goods to ship back home? Not sure it’s a fair comparison given the differing goals. I’m pretty sure we were using Afghanistan as the Military Industrial Complex’s cum dumpster.
No, that’s what a quirass is for. That’s why they wore those.
I’m sure they spent 24/7 with a cuirass in the Central American heat. Also, not every Spaniard in those expeditions had the money to buy one for themselves.
EDIT:
No, neither was Spain in America, since the natives could be captured as slaves
Pretty sure that ended up being one of the things during the occupation, yes.
That just shows that we never evolved past ‘the one who is stronger is the one who is right’, and I really wish we would
That’s adorable.
Might makes right ey?
Seems very uncivilized.
Edit:
So i guess in your world the most advanced creature is a Malaria mosquito.
Don’t sit here and act like you don’t live as the beneficiary of thousands of years of selective breeding of Mesoamerican staple crops, not even to touch on the medications you take that come from the Americas. I’m talking about them as different technologies because they are, and recreating things like terra preta is an active area of research for current day use. Because, guess what, our current technology that you’re jacking off about sucks ass and relies on dumping a metric fuckton of nitrogen and phosphorous in the form of fertilizer runoff into waterways, creating enormous dead zones.
‘Who can kill the most people with it’ is a very American way of understanding the past or technology in general. You can’t kill anyone with a telescope, that doesn’t mean it’s not a technology.
Well, not with THAT attitude.
(I really have been enjoying your posts here, please do not take this as anything but me shitposting.)
Why bother doing any of that shit when you can maintain a productive environment and slit that asshole’s throat while he sleeps?