Wait so if the Lemmy devs are transphobic… Should there not be a fork at this rate? Also, I’ve heard a lot of shit talked about .ml and seemingly for good reason but what’s the story with all this? How did it get this bad?
I see… Yikes. I know nothing about those other projects and I’ll look them up, but are they forks of Lemmy handled by different people, or just front ends TO Lemmy? Apologies if I’m missing something obvious.
I think what you got mixed up is the software side and moderation. You can use the same software as .ml and have nothing to do with it. It’s called instance and there are many. This isn’t just front end. There are different front ends (apps, web, …) as well but that’s a different story.
You are on pawb.social as you most certainly already know. That’s hosted and handled by different people than .ml. It’s just the same software and the software isn’t the problem
And since the software is free, no one profits from it. As an instance, it can choose to federate with .ml and even if (as my instance does, don’t know about yours), there is no guilt by association in my opinion. Being federated means you can see their content and they see yours but yours is moderated by your mods alone.
So they technically aren’t forks since the software is the same but they are still handled by different people because they are exact copies software side. I hope that makes it clearer.
Sorry I’m only getting back to this now, but thank you! I do understand instances and whatnot, but I guess my question boils down to this: if the whole of Lemmy somehow gets influenced by the shitty views of some or all of the devs (I’m not sure how many there are), and a fork is needed, does that bring down all of the instances and existing infrastructure of Lemmy with it? Like, the existing instances won’t be able to upgrade to the latest version, and then if they use the fork instead, will that screw with other things? I guess this is a question for a programmer, but it’s on my mind lol
Do you see u/Ofiuco@piefed.ca’s comment? Because they made quite a good argument. Software isn’t as neutral as I made it look. There are features like blocking entire instances that can benefit different instances differently and I don’t think it’s coincedence that they promise and don’t deliver on it. Also they do claim donations for software and hosting but how much they need and how much they get is anyone’s guess. This is all basically a TLDR of this comment.
Ahh I see. So while there are multiple instances of Lemmy, all of which are under the shitty devs’ thumbs at the end of the day, the mentioned Piefed and kbin are totally different things by different people with similar functionality but no bigotry? Or are they just different instances OF Lemmy like I’m posting from right now, in which case, what makes those two special?
Piefed and mbin (I think kbin is dead and mbin the successor) are on the level of lemmy in the sense that they are the software and there are different instances of them. So you don’t just join piefed but you join one instance of piefed.
From my understanding, neither is even a lemmy branch but both are their own software using the more general fediverse protocol (that also includes mastodon and others) so they are compatible, look similar but have different developers.
And protocol refers to the data exchange format in a way. Think of it as a chess computer that outputs moves in the standard notation. Two computers can play chess together no matter how differently they are built and programmed inside as long as they agree on the communication. Same here. You have posts, comments, up and downvotes, … but that’s just the protocol. The program can work very differently. It’s even possible to post from mastodon on lemmy (not the other way around tho because mastodon doesn’t allow it, not for technical reasons) that’s how different software can be and still communicate.
Yeah, I think that makes sense, thanks so much for the explanation. I should ask though, in that case, should I move myself over to one of those services? If so, which do you recommend? My account here is only new so now would be the best time for me to switch.
The good thing is, this is a federated service, and many instances are defederated from them if you want that. Also, they haven’t added anything to the code that’s bad, and it can be forked if they do.
Meanwhile, piefed, while it seems nice, has issues too. The language they’re using, while it is easy, so allows for easier contribution, isn’t as fast/powerful. They also hardcoded a block list for things like meme communities, and IIRC “NoMoreMuskSpam”, and things like that. This can be removed by admins, but by default they’re blocked. It’s pretty stupid.
So wait, is this another hub for Lemmy’s servers? How is this different then just accessing Lemmy through a third party app? Is this a totally different platform despite accessing the same servers? I’m a bit confused.
Not really - while it is part of the Fediverse, it is not Lemmy. In that sense it’s closer to mastodon or pixelfed than a different client, with the key difference being that since the structure/interface are so similar, they’re much more easily integrated with each other, so most likely have already interacted with a lost or comment from a Piefed user on a Lemmy community without even noticing :)
Different Lemmy clients still connect you to the same servers and accounts, while Piefed’s are completely separate - although several Lemmy servers are running their own instance of Piefed too, on a different domain. So, you “access the same servers” in the sense of posts, comments, votes, and potentially server hardware, but not for your account and server software
Gotcha, I think that makes sense. I don’t know much about Piefed, but hey, if it works it works. I prefer Lemmy anyway because it is integrated like that.
Wait so if the Lemmy devs are transphobic… Should there not be a fork at this rate? Also, I’ve heard a lot of shit talked about .ml and seemingly for good reason but what’s the story with all this? How did it get this bad?
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I see… Yikes. I know nothing about those other projects and I’ll look them up, but are they forks of Lemmy handled by different people, or just front ends TO Lemmy? Apologies if I’m missing something obvious.
I think what you got mixed up is the software side and moderation. You can use the same software as .ml and have nothing to do with it. It’s called instance and there are many. This isn’t just front end. There are different front ends (apps, web, …) as well but that’s a different story.
You are on pawb.social as you most certainly already know. That’s hosted and handled by different people than .ml. It’s just the same software and the software isn’t the problem And since the software is free, no one profits from it. As an instance, it can choose to federate with .ml and even if (as my instance does, don’t know about yours), there is no guilt by association in my opinion. Being federated means you can see their content and they see yours but yours is moderated by your mods alone.
So they technically aren’t forks since the software is the same but they are still handled by different people because they are exact copies software side. I hope that makes it clearer.
Sorry I’m only getting back to this now, but thank you! I do understand instances and whatnot, but I guess my question boils down to this: if the whole of Lemmy somehow gets influenced by the shitty views of some or all of the devs (I’m not sure how many there are), and a fork is needed, does that bring down all of the instances and existing infrastructure of Lemmy with it? Like, the existing instances won’t be able to upgrade to the latest version, and then if they use the fork instead, will that screw with other things? I guess this is a question for a programmer, but it’s on my mind lol
Oh, it’s been a week on my side, sorry.
Do you see u/Ofiuco@piefed.ca’s comment? Because they made quite a good argument. Software isn’t as neutral as I made it look. There are features like blocking entire instances that can benefit different instances differently and I don’t think it’s coincedence that they promise and don’t deliver on it. Also they do claim donations for software and hosting but how much they need and how much they get is anyone’s guess. This is all basically a TLDR of this comment.
Ahh I see. So while there are multiple instances of Lemmy, all of which are under the shitty devs’ thumbs at the end of the day, the mentioned Piefed and kbin are totally different things by different people with similar functionality but no bigotry? Or are they just different instances OF Lemmy like I’m posting from right now, in which case, what makes those two special?
Piefed and mbin (I think kbin is dead and mbin the successor) are on the level of lemmy in the sense that they are the software and there are different instances of them. So you don’t just join piefed but you join one instance of piefed.
From my understanding, neither is even a lemmy branch but both are their own software using the more general fediverse protocol (that also includes mastodon and others) so they are compatible, look similar but have different developers.
And protocol refers to the data exchange format in a way. Think of it as a chess computer that outputs moves in the standard notation. Two computers can play chess together no matter how differently they are built and programmed inside as long as they agree on the communication. Same here. You have posts, comments, up and downvotes, … but that’s just the protocol. The program can work very differently. It’s even possible to post from mastodon on lemmy (not the other way around tho because mastodon doesn’t allow it, not for technical reasons) that’s how different software can be and still communicate.
I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, I think that makes sense, thanks so much for the explanation. I should ask though, in that case, should I move myself over to one of those services? If so, which do you recommend? My account here is only new so now would be the best time for me to switch.
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Forks for ideological reasons will almost always fail if the issue isn’t with the code.
The lemmy devs bad opinions have not made it into lemmy itself.
The good thing is, this is a federated service, and many instances are defederated from them if you want that. Also, they haven’t added anything to the code that’s bad, and it can be forked if they do.
Meanwhile, piefed, while it seems nice, has issues too. The language they’re using, while it is easy, so allows for easier contribution, isn’t as fast/powerful. They also hardcoded a block list for things like meme communities, and IIRC “NoMoreMuskSpam”, and things like that. This can be removed by admins, but by default they’re blocked. It’s pretty stupid.
https://piefed.social/
So wait, is this another hub for Lemmy’s servers? How is this different then just accessing Lemmy through a third party app? Is this a totally different platform despite accessing the same servers? I’m a bit confused.
Not really - while it is part of the Fediverse, it is not Lemmy. In that sense it’s closer to mastodon or pixelfed than a different client, with the key difference being that since the structure/interface are so similar, they’re much more easily integrated with each other, so most likely have already interacted with a lost or comment from a Piefed user on a Lemmy community without even noticing :) Different Lemmy clients still connect you to the same servers and accounts, while Piefed’s are completely separate - although several Lemmy servers are running their own instance of Piefed too, on a different domain. So, you “access the same servers” in the sense of posts, comments, votes, and potentially server hardware, but not for your account and server software
Gotcha, I think that makes sense. I don’t know much about Piefed, but hey, if it works it works. I prefer Lemmy anyway because it is integrated like that.