• CritFail@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    So war criminals lecturing Arab child amputees on why everything is their fault?

  • msage@programming.dev
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    2 days ago

    One thing I feel like is missing in the discourse is that this is just a trial.

    And it will spread everywhere unless stopped right here and now.

    And I don’t know how many people understand that.

    • DoctimusLime@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 day ago

      So true, the American empire and the billionaires that fund it need to be taken out asap, America needs all of the organised militant resistance 💪

  • Bogus007@lemmy.zip
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    2 days ago

    As asked in another thread: where are the Arabic states? They have oil, they have shit of money, and they always talk about helping Muslim brothers and sisters aka the Uma. Are Palestinians not Muslim brothers and sisters? I am sure they could pretty easy intervene in a favourable way for Palestinians.

    • ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip
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      2 days ago

      Do you not remember last year when Israel was bombing ALL of their immediate neighbors as part of their genocidal purging of Palestine. All while hiding behind the US’s skirts?

    • scintilla@crust.piefed.social
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      2 days ago

      And draw the ire of the entire western world? This isn’t just isreal and the us its effectively every “western” nation.

      • adhd_traco@piefed.social
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        2 days ago

        So triggering just thinking about German leftist communities and papers over these years. I sure hope they can wake from their slumber and show some commitment.

    • Limerance@piefed.social
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      2 days ago

      The Arab states have tried many times (1948, 1967, 1973) for decades to fight Israel directly and indirectly without success.

      Jordan and Lebanon received huge problems with Palestinian militants inside their borders (Black September, Lebanese Civil War). Palestinians in Kuwait supported the invasion by Saddam Hussein. So after spilling a lot of their own blood and receiving turmoil at home, they chose it’s not a worthwhile or winnable fight.

      Prince Bandar gives his perspective on his frustrations with Arafat in this interview https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idJx1bB30EM The Saudis spent a lot of money and political capital to get to peace talks, only for Arafat to refuse the deals offered.

      Many Arab rulers like Egypt are internally threatened by Islamists like the Muslim Brotherhood, which Hamas is an offshoot from. Hamas, Hezbollah, and their allies are seen as threats to their own power.

      Supporting the Palestinian cause has become a losing proposition. Even more evident now that Al Assad in Syria lost power and the Iranian regime got a bloody nose.

      Lose wars against Israel and threaten your own power domestically is just a bad proposition.

      Palestine isn’t even the worst place to be in the Middle East. Syria over the last decade plus and Yemen, Sudan are drowning in war, death, famine, genocide happening. Palestinians have an above average living standard, education, and life expectancy for the region.

      Squashing an uppity group brutally with force is just another Tuesday for the Middle East.

      The biggest crime in this war, that nobody talks about, has been Egypt keeping the border closed to refugees. No other warzone doesn’t let refugees leave. This has contributed immensely to suffering and death inside Gaza. Egypt does this because it doesn’t want Hamas inside its borders. There are already terrorist groups active in the Sinai. The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy of the current government. Hamas is both of these.

      The question is also how much did the Palestinians fuck up to make their Arab neighbor Egypt their enemy.

      That said the oil rich Arab countries do a lot for Palestinians, including humanitarian spending. The UAE does a lot of that for example. Otoh Qatar supports the militant resistance by hosting Hamas leadership and have Al Jazeera run propaganda supporting them.

      In the current Gaza war Hamas had military support from the Houthis in Yemen, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Iran, Iraqi militias, Assad’s Syria. Israel called this the seven front war. https://msi2.substack.com/p/the-seven-front-war-how-israel-rewrote

      Israel won against all of these enemies decisively. Picking the Palestinians has been picking the losing side for decades.

      • zeezee@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        that’s a whole load of words to victim blame and say the Palestinians brought this upon themselves and that they deserve everything they’ve gotten and that it could be worse since their main “allies” are doing “worse” genocides in other countries so they should feel lucky…

        • Limerance@piefed.social
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          2 days ago

          The question was why there’s not more support by Arabs and I gave an answer based in historical fact. I even provided a link to an interview with a very respected Arab leader making similar remarks.

          Palestinians deserve a dignified life in prosperity and a future. Their political leadership and allies have failed the Palestinian people repeatedly.

          Palestinians are mostly used as political pawns and symbols by their supporters abroad. Improving the actual lives of Palestinians is an afterthought. Fighting Israel takes precedent over fighting for Palestinians.

          Palestinians are oppressed by Israel, the Palestinian authority police state, Hamas’ brutal Islamist regime, kept as eternal refugees by Arab host countries their grandparents were born in. UNRWA‘s mission and definition of refugee is markedly different from the UNHCR, keeping Palestinians stateless and without rights. Millions of people fled in the 1940s around the world. They found new homes, settled elsewhere, built lives, and their grandchildren live a good life. Palestinians are the only refugees this future was denied.

          Western pro Palestine activists repeat the falsehoods and incitement of Hamas. Even there the voices of moderate Palestinians are shouted down and marginalized. Palestinians don’t have free speech under the PA nor Hamas. Their supporters in the west call for more violence (intifada) and war (destroy Israel). That path of failure has caused immense suffering for Palestinians.

          Palestinians are in a terrible situation and have the worst supporters. It’s heartbreaking, really. They deserve better.

          • mrdown@lemmy.world
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            14 hours ago

            You purposely conflate Arab leaders with Arab population . The majority of the arab population support Palestine . You blame everything on “terrorist” organization to justify leaders inactions when we all know that the reason they no longer care is that the usa bought it support with military and economical support. Israel openly allude that that they control the open and closing of thee rafah border. Morsi was easing up the border control and that’s the reason the usa organized a coup to oust him

            About 77% of respondents named the United States and Israel as the biggest threat to the security and stability of the region.

            See it is not khamas or khizbollah who are considered the biggest threat

            Funny how you also omit the atrocities made by Israeli backed militant in Lebanon civil war

            call for more violence (intifada) and war (destroy Israel)

            The intifada was a Palestinian rights protest that started peacefully than Israel start shooting people. Israel is fully responsible for all the violent on both side that happened afterwar.

            And by war we mean fighting for liberation of Palestine then create either a two state or one state where everybody live peacefully .

            Israel is the one currently destroying everything and trying to exterminate Palestinians why don’t you admit it instead of both siding. Why can’t you say simple that you support after the liberation of Palestine to held accountable war criminals from both side

            https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/arab-public-opinion-about-israels-war-on-gaza/#%3A~%3Atext=The+results+indicate+that+the%2Cthan+90%25+of+respondents+agreed.

            https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/what-behind-egypts-inaction-over-gaza-slaughter

          • zeezee@slrpnk.net
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            2 days ago

            a very respected Arab leader

            you mean the guy who was caught taking £1bn in bribes from BAE for the Al-Yamamah arms deal? the guy who reportedly funded Fatah al-Islam terrorists in Lebanon? the saudi intelligence chief nicknamed “Bandar Bush” because he was so deep in the pockets of the American war machine? that’s your credible source on Palestinian leadership failures?

            sorry I don’t have time to go point by point why you’ve presented a very one sided story that conveniently omits the main reason why Arab states feel reluctant to support the Palestinians - the fact they’ll have to go against the US empire and its buddies which economically and militarily outcompete them - your posturing around how its the Palestinian authorities fault they can’t have allies under an active occupation turned genocide just shrugs away responsibility from the ones that have real power onto those that have extremely limited options of resistance.

            • Limerance@piefed.social
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              2 days ago

              You are forgetting 1948, 67, 73 when lots of Arab countries waged large scale war against Israel. There was even a huge oil embargo in the 1970s by Arabs against the West, causing huge economic turmoil.

              Of course having a good relationship to the US is important to many countries. It’s very beneficial to them. However those governments opposed to the US aren’t particularly great for their population either.

              There’s certainly no lack of bad regimes in the Middle East. Bribes and arms deals are just how business is done there.

              Regarding Prince Bandar and Saudi policies in the region. Saddam’s Iraq became an enemy with his invasion of Kuwait. Iraq had been a regional rival to the Saudis even back to the time it had a Hashemite king. The Hashemite and Saudi clans are old rivals for power in the region. Saudis have their own interests in the region. Iran is a regional rival for example and their Islamist ideology a direct threat to the kingdom. Yes, Saudis have played some stupid games with spreading Wahhabism and supporting Islamists militias against other governments in the region. Of course the Saudis prioritize their own interests above the Palestinian cause. They have been a big supporter historically both financially and politically.

              I really recommend you watch the interview to hear another perspective and his personal interactions with Arafat during the peace process.

              Also Palestinians have agency and have influenced the history of the region significantly since 1948. It’s patronizing to see them only as victims.

              • mrdown@lemmy.world
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                15 hours ago

                after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion

                No wonder arabs was trying to stop the occupation plan from the start

  • green_red_black@slrpnk.net
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    2 days ago

    Thing is it’s not going to pass muster with the Zionists.

    Yeah the Zionists are big on doing Fascist shit like this. But their goal is turning all of Palestine into Israel, with only White Jewish people.

    This plan here is counter to that as it keeps Palestinians in the area. Palestinians that are enslaved sure, but not gone.

    • SpicyLizards@reddthat.com
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      2 days ago

      Dont worry, these wonderful pleasure palaces will keep the population out of site, but available for further abuse.

      • green_red_black@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        Out of site. Until the Zionists decide they would like the land and property as well.

        Not going to debate it’s all be that should not happen anyways

    • Limerance@piefed.social
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      2 days ago

      Only white Jewish people? The majority of Israeli Jews are from the MENA region. Palestinians are also quite diverse skin color wise. Palestinians and Jews are very close genetically as well. They look practically the same.

      • green_red_black@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        With the project founded by jews from Europe and racism to folks that don’t look like they are from Europe.

        And I really hope I don’t need to explain how Israeli’s Treat the Palestinian People. Because it should be obvious that for Zionists Palestinians cannot be considered genetically related.

        • Limerance@piefed.social
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          2 days ago

          As the Zionist Rudy Rochman repeats all the time, Palestinians and Jews are cousins.

          Even back in the day, the situation and views were more diverse than you think.

          But judging from Jonathan Marc Gribetz’s new book, “Defining Neighbors: Religion, Race, and the Early Zionist-Arab Encounter,” religion has long been central to the conflict, and apocalyptic narratives about a new holy war may be over-hasty. To be sure, the neighbors in question lived roughly a century ago, and the way Zionist and Arab intellectuals understood each other in late-Ottoman Palestine can only indirectly color how we understand current events. Further, Gribetz, a professor of Near Eastern studies at Princeton, places careful chronological limits on his argument that early Zionists and Arabs saw each other “not as perfect strangers, competing for territory,” but as religious and racial cousins with “intertwined histories, cultures, beliefs, even blood.”

          About 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinians with equal rights. Sure there’s discrimination and also racism, but Palestinians living in the Galilee for example are doing pretty well over all. Of course the West Bank is worse and Gaza terrible.

          Reducing it to black and white racism creates a very distorted picture of the reality in the country.