From Engels to Lenin to Mao, all have expressed their sheer repulsion towards dogmatism. Mao has even written one text after another and spoken in multiple meetings about battling this problem in the party. He, along with other materialists, has made it clear that the Markets are a historical category that have existed since before capitalism. Capitalism =/= Commerce.
Then how is it some Marxists who claim to have read theory call China capitalist and label its supporters as ‘Dengists’? Socialists created the fastest growing economy ever observed in human history that lifted hundreds of millions of people out of absolute poverty. And now these dogmatists wanna give its credit to capitalism!?
Their entire prejudice is based on the misconception that Deng Xioping did not follow on Mao’s thoughts. Deng literally heeded Maoist ideas such as “Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend” and “The masses are the real heroes, while we ourselves are often childish and ignorant”. He built the productive forces for the Chinese people based on—not in spite of—the continuing influence of Mao Zedong’s ideology. Now Xi Jingping is continuing both of their legacies.
So people who make such non-materialist and often times liberal critique of the Chinese economy have either not read theory or did not develop any dialectical and historical materialism to understand the theory!
As Marxists and materialists, it is our responsibility to confront these reductionist elements in our movement and bring back the pendulum at its correct course when it swings too much to either sides; right-wing revisionism or left-wing dogmatism.
“No investigation, no right to speak.” - Mao Zedong
It is baffling not gonna lie. Craziest example i can think of is the youtube channel “socialism4all” who makes audiobooks of socialist works and even adds very helpful comments here and there about context and clearing up terminology and even he denies china being socialist. Like, mf that is your entire damn job! How the fuck did you read through all of that, add comments, make a playlist for beginners out of it and then not realise that china is one of the most successful examples of what you read and recommend?!
And then, in his added notes, he goes on to make fun of anarchists, social democrats and, ironically enough, left coms.
Really sullied his great work with those takes imo
S4A is very strange in his “anti-dengism” along with being, if I may say, annoyingly petty. For example he actively discouraged support to the PSL, stating that the US shouldn’t be forming a vanguard yet, and therefore socialists should get behind the greens to first form a “mass party” which I frankly don’t understand. His reasoning, although initially I followed it, even if I disagreed, started with the idea that since the US is so far from any kind of revolutionary moment, then any attempt at making a vanguard which would need to perform revolutionary praxis in order to arrive at the correct political line, was premature.
Again I don’t entirely agree with the position, but it at least was argued. However the next point he made to support the greens over the PSL, was that the PAL was revisionist and Dengist. Along with how often he makes schpeals about dentists and how anticommunist they really are, I can help but assume that his real reason he opposes joining the PSL is because he sees them as Dengists.
He’s also been chauvinistic against Muslim Communists going out of his way to degrade them for being religious, but that’s a separate issue.
I knew that my fear of dentists was justified!
Lol, I just don’t try with the autocorrect anymore. Most people here probably know what I’m trying to say so the reason for language is bring fulfilled.
Weirdly I actually quite enjoy the dentist. It can be a little tedious but there’s something satisfying about a scheduled cleaning.
If PSL is Dengist then what is the Green party? At least one of those two is explicitly socialist.
I’m not saying supporting the Greens is always bad. I have argued in the past that if you have no choice to support actual socialists, then in the US at least, any third party that opposes war, imperialism and the corporate duopoly is a better choice than the uniparty.
But if you have the choice between a progressive but still just socdem party on the one hand and actual socialists on the other, then clearly the socialist one is superior, no?
Apparently an undisputed Mass party is preferable to a “revisionist” vanguard party when the time of struggle can’t produce a disciplined vanguard.
Like I almost see his point, which is that as long as revolutionary practice can’t be applied a socialist party’s theoretical line will be flawed, and therefore no party is going to have a perfect line so the first step is to bring up class consciousness enough to where an actual vanguard can form.
It’s not exactly a perfect argument but again I can see the points that ate being made. There’s clearly respectable amounts of thought being put into it. However his obsession with calling out “Dengism” causes that argument to just come off like a pretense to bash China and socialists who support the PRC.
The counter I’d probably say is, “if the material conditions in the US are not capable of producing a vanguard party, then helping any anti-fascist party at the moment is equally valid. Therefore supporting PSL or the greens are compatible measures for a Marxist to take.” That’s not even getting into the fact that if you need a mass party as a prerequisite to making a vanguard party, then wouldn’t it be easier to transform a revisionist but still explicitly revolutionary party into that Mass party?
All around its frankly a strange bone to pick especially considering the circumstances.
To me that just feels like a post-hoc rationalization. You proceed from the position that you don’t like modern China and you work backwards to construct an argument that will allow you to justify why a pro-China party should not be supported.
Exactly. For example someone posted in the Deprogram sub at one point about some niche communist party that they’d heard of in the US. I took the time to read their psrty platform and positions and deduced they were a Hoxhaist party. From there I didn’t immediately go on to comment how these people should not be supported whatsoever but decided to approach the situation thoughtfully.
Instead I simply stated, they seem to be a Hoxhaist party according to their program but if they are doing good community work and opposing US fascism, then they seem like comrades. I noted my disagreement with their party policy while also acknowledging that what’s most important at the current moment is organizing against US fascism, and stated that unless they’re in your own company, I’d recommend PSL over them. Both due to their the theoretical line and their national reach.
Petty interdisciplinary squabbles are poison to any Marxist mobilization in the US. The things we should be most critique are practice and how their theories manifest into real action. I do not care if a party denounces China as “revisionist” if they’re not going out of their way to demand the US be hostile to the PRC.
💯
Yes, he has openly stated that he believes the PSL is “Dengist” and tells people to avoid it for that reason. He makes a lot of wild bad-faith claims about the PSL, and he has plenty of other very problematic and/or confusing views. I appreciate his work on the audiobooks, but it’s unfortunate that that gave him a platform to spread his own ideas. He should be a cautionary example of what happens when you read a lot without the kind of deep collective study and practical work that allow you to understand what you read correctly and stick to unfounded opinions rather than letting evidence change your mind.
Oh no that guy has anti China brain worms!? Shit…
Yep, that’s why I have to be pretty careful with linking audiobooks in the reading list I made.
It’s funny because I definitely used that dudes audio book for WITBD. What part of
Do these people not fully understand? Do they think Feudalism was destroyed in a matter of years and not decades and centuries? One thing we have to accept NOW is that this version of socialism that isn’t “stamped with the birthmarks of the old society” is something our grandchildren might experience, and that’s if we started TODAY.
Yep, and that might even be too soon.
Yeah, we’re definitely not starting today, heh. May my great great grandkids rest in the shade of the trees we plant. Or something like that, you get what I mean. I should add, too, that Lenin acknowledges this in his own writings post revolution:
From Better Fewer, But Better. The second part of Lenin’s letter to the 12th Congres “How we Should Reorganise The Workers’ and Peasants’ Inspection”.
I’m not sure how he can look at Lenin, and then also the NED, and somehow not see the through line from the Lenin, the NED, and the Deng reforms. As socialists, are we supposed to believe that our state exists in a vacuum, unbothered by the global economy and global capitalist dominance? How is a socialist state supposed to maintain a command economy fully surrounded by capitalist economic schemes? The deal the Chinese made regarding technology sharing during the reform and opening up is what allowed them to own their productive capacity, instead of it being owned by the west.
I could go on and on, but to deny China’s path, is to deny Dialectical Materialism, to deny the Laws of Uneven and Combined Development. It’s dogmatic, plain and simple.
That’s an excellent excerpt, comrade, hadn’t read that before! I agree, there’s no one true socialism, and China’s choice to take advantage of market forces for developing themselves while retaining the principle aspects of the economy in the public sphere is fully in line with Marxism-Leninism. Fantastically well-said.
Dessalines makes audiobooks. You can link them.
Yep, probably shifting over in that direction for rev 3, would be nice if they had tankie.tube links for them as well.
Yeah i am trying to figure out where exactly he mentioned those takes so i can link it, but it’s an audiobook that i have listened to at work and i don’t even know the specific videos lmao. Will report back when i find itEdit: never mind, he has a full on video on it haha https://youtu.be/Zt9k8SymAcA
Wow…
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: