Germany has deported 20 people to Afghanistan on what was the first flight directly agreed with the Taliban since the militants’ return to power in 2021

  • Gorilladrums@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    The right to asylum does not depend on whether you’re a nice or very shitty person.

    But it does depend on whether or not you’re a genuine threat to society, which these individuals are.

    So in the eyes of the law they’re redeemed and attoned?

    They’re not German citizens or residents. Germany has no obligation to keep them in the country. They lost their legal status and chance at attaining asylum when they committing the crimes, and they’re no longer allowed in the country once they serve their sentences.

    I’d say yes, very much, it’s an easy case for Afghanistan.

    I’m not sure why you’re willing to go so far to defend literal rapists being deported, but there’s no credible evidence that the Taliban has gone after any of the deportees from the previous deportation rounds that Germany made. These are muslim Afghani men who were rejected from the west, I think the Taliban will embrace them if anything.

    • kossa@feddit.org
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      2 hours ago

      Ah, that clears up your misundestanding. You misinterpret the second paragraph in Article 14.

      The second point of Article 14 is not about “you lose your right to asylum if you perpetrate a crime”. It is about “you cannot claim asylum for the prosecution of a crime”. So if they were e.g. commiting murder in Afghanistan, fled from there and claimed asylum in Germany, because they were prosecuted in Afghanistan for said murder, they had no right to asylum.

    • kossa@feddit.org
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      5 days ago

      But it does depend

      No. Here’s the funny thing: having human rights depends on nothing! That is what makes them ‘universal’ and ‘inalienable’.

      chance at attaining asylum when they committing the crimes

      Again not how human rights work. I’m pretty sure that even the state has better reasoning for the deports than you, as this would be such a blatant violation of human rights, that it would be very awkward for Germany.

      go so far to defend literal rapists

      You made that allegation often in this thread. But you do realize that defending the individual and their deed is very different from defending their rights? All those ‘Western’ and ‘Christian’ values? Here we could really show them and fill those words with meaning. Having values and standing for them becomes hard, when you have to apply them to rapists, yes. But that’s also the test, whether you’re serious about those grandiose values.

      • Gorilladrums@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        No. Here’s the funny thing: having human rights depends on nothing! That is what makes them ‘universal’ and ‘inalienable’.

        Yes, they do. What alternate world do you live in? The UN declaration of human rights is nothing more than a listing of guiding principles to establish liberal based international order. The right to seek asylum literally has conditional in the original document. Like what are we even talking about?

        Again not how human rights work. I’m pretty sure that even the state has better reasoning for the deports than you, as this would be such a blatant violation of human rights, that it would be very awkward for Germany.

        It’s not a violation. You can repeat the same thing like a broken record, but it doesn’t mean anything if it’s not true. Germany doesn’t have to host them if they are a danger to German society or if they lied about their claim to asylum. It’ll only be a violation of human rights IF their claim to asylum was genuine AND they aren’t causing real harm to the host society. In this case, they violated both and therefore their cases got rejected. They’re not entitled to be in Germany or any country, again, this is literally baked in into article 14 of the human rights declaration.

        You made that allegation often in this thread. But you do realize that defending the individual and their deed is very different from defending their rights?

        That’s not allegation. That’s literally what you’re doing. You don’t seem to understand that you DON’T have a moral argument here. Germany is acting in accordance with human rights, the people in question got due process, deserve to get deported, and they got due process. What is there to complain about? It’s not like this is the first round of deportations to Afghanistan under the Taliban that Germany has had, and there has been no credible reports or evidence that any of the deportees have been abused or tortured for being deported. If that’s the case, why are you so hellbent here to defend these criminals? Your central argument simply doesn’t hold, and therefore, it’s not unreasonable to assume that you’re just defending the criminals because you think they’re entitled to be in Germany no matter what.

        • KevinOnEarth@mstdn.io
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          3 hours ago

          @Gorilladrums @kossa
          “IF their claim to asylum was genuine AND they aren’t causing real harm to the host society.”
          So, logically, if the “IF” condition is True and the “AND” condition is False, they maintain their rights to asylum. 🤷
          “Moral arguments” are subjective. (Especially in this thread. 😏) “Send them to certain death” & “All humans have rights” can both claim subjective moral rectitude. 🤷